2021-07-14 00:00:00 - Joint Committee on State Administration and Regulatory Oversight

2021-07-14 00:00:00 - Joint Committee on State Administration and Regulatory Oversight

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[REP DOOLEY:] [HB3133] [HB3134] Um I had two bills that I just wanted to quickly uh comment on um on H 3133. Um this is a very simple bill, what it does is set forth commission to study standards, standards in cybersecurity for any uh uh uh projects that we have going on in the commonwealth as far as dealing with outside vendors. Um the second one it's a little more complicated it's H 3134, and this is, it prevents non market economy. So countries like China North Korea Iran um Communist countries that completely control their economy264 and actually own most of their businesses from bidding on state contracts with the MBTA. Uh What this sets forth is, it's an unfair trade practice because if they are subsidized by their government they are able to underbid all the other outside competition.

Um Actually this this bill had a was filed federally by Senator Schumer um and290 it was part of the Arms Appropriations Act uh two years ago. Um So yeah, but unfortunately it had a carve out for Massachusetts. Um In addition, Illinois filed a couple members of the Illinois Legislature recently filed this exact legislation. Um They copied my my legislation and it passed unanimously within within the Illinois House and in the Senate. Um So it is a um the bill is, we should be making319 sure that we're treating everyone fairly and not sending our yeah vendors on a um on a path where they can't compete fairly. So hopefully we will be able to get a fair vote out of committee. Thank you very much.
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[REP CABRAL:] uh Representative Dooley um 3134 you. Making reference uh moments or because the MBTA. Uh does have a contract for cars. Right? Real cars.
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[DOOLEY:] Okay, good. Um It is it does not reference that particular um plant out in Springfield from the standpoint of uh grandfathers and existing contracts. This would just be for any new contracts going forward.

[CABRAL:] Okay. So for your for your information, um the reason why it's being built in Springfield is it was due to a language that the Legislature approved which I offered during that process um to make sure that those cars will be assembled in Massachusetts. It Obviously ended up in Springfield. I was looking also for some of it to be in New Bedford. Only kidding. But it was language that actually when I chaired the Committee on Bonding, we actually inserted language as a requirement that they would be because we're talking about contracts potentially in the billions of dollars. The present contract actually came in under budget, Almost 50% less than the next bidder. That's the reason why you have the bidder you have the Chinese company that won that bid.

[DOOLEY:] Oh absolutely. Mr chairman. But you know that's part of the problem is that these materials are being made in China using without OSHA, without prevailing wage, without the safety standards um and then being shipped over here and assembled. Obviously, when you're470 building material and it's being run by the communist Chinese government, they can undercut anyone. It's a it's a very dynamic model. They did it in Australia and in Australia they'd over over a seven year timeframe, they did this. They took advantage of the bidding system, as in, they know it would go to the low bidder. So they just deliberately undercut um all the producers of rail in Australia and New Zealand. And over a seven year time period, they bankrupted every single one of the Australian companies. And now and then they closed shop. And now in Australia, if you, if they want to buy a railcar, whether it's freight or passenger, they actually have to buy it from mainland China and it gets shipped over on container ships.

That's the reality. It's not fair that a real market economy, regular capitalistic economy is able to compete. There's no possible way to compete with the communist, Chinese government who are willing to subsidize and operate at a substantial loss in order to take the business. That's what this sets forth to do. You know, whether it's North Korea Iran, uh, China, you know, any of those type company countries, um, they're not playing on the same level playing field that our American companies are and, or Canadian companies or Mexican companies or French companies, you know, whoever, um, anyone. And so that's what the, what this seeks to uh, to fix. Is that because we are purely divided by low bid not to mention that every single railcar573 they've produced has been inferior and has been taken off the tracks with derailment and all other sorts of problems. So, um, but you know.

[CABRAL:] I I understand the issue Um and I know what you're trying to accomplish with this legislation. I mean, so you'll know if my recollection serves me well, I think the next bidder was actually a French company on that assembling stuff. Um, I don't believe I don't recall an American company bidding on it because for whatever reason, we didn't have the expertise. Uh, in any event. That's something that the committee certainly will take a look at. So, thank you612 very much for your,

[DOOLEY:] I appreciate, I appreciate it very much. Mr. Chairman,
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[SEN FRIEDMAN:] [SB2061] [HB3238] Um So thank you for the opportunity today to speak in support of S2061 an act relative to stay contracting. The commonwealth and its quasi-public agencies and authorities helped provide thousands of private-sector jobs across Massachusetts by hiring contractors to provide663 cleaning and maintenance services to government agencies and the public. Mass law stipulates that contracts for cleaning and maintenance services in buildings operated by the commonwealth must contain a prevailing wage provisions for the workers employed to perform those services. However, the wording leaves in limbo those cleaning683 and maintenance workers who provide these services for quasi-public agencies and authorities. Even with this loophole, many quasi-public agencies and authorities do the right thing and pay the prevailing wage, but others do not.

So this bill just simply closes this loophole. So quasi-public agencies and authorities are explicitly included in the prevailing wage statute for cleaning and maintenance services, thus providing a fair and uniform policy from Massachusetts. If this bill happens to look familiar in the camp to the committee members, that's because I filed it several times and my predecessor,718 Senator Ken Donnelly filed it before me. And in fact, the 2018 version of this bill was enacted by the Senate and the House. It's a very version very similar to what my esteemed colleague, representative China Tyler had Has before you today as H 3238. But that bill was pocket vetoed by the governor and the clock ran out in January of 2019.

We learned that the administration's objection to the bill centered on reporting provisions which we had included that sought to create more transparency and oversight of these contracts. That's why my bill before you today is stripped of those reporting provisions and simply closes the existing loophole. I really want to get this legislation over the finish line this session and close that loophole once and for all. So I respectfully ask that this bill be considered and reported favourably at your earliest convenience. Thank you very much.
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[REP ROY:] [HB3228] Good morning. Mr. Chairman, good828 to see you. Mr. Chairman Cabral and Chairman Pacheco. Uh I'm here834 in support of H 3228 which is an act relative to preference for products or services manufactured or produced in the United States. Briefly, the bill would require the state purchasing agent to give preferences on purchases to products or services manufactured or produced within the United States provided that in giving such preference, no sacrifice or loss in price or quality should be permitted.862 Uh productive manufacturing is fundamental to the success of an economy. In 2019 alone, the United States manufacturing gross output was $6.3 trillion.874 And manufacturing has been responsible for roughly one third of economic activity in the United States each year from 1997 to 2013.

However, gross output has been on a steady decline over that same time period because of rapid growth in manufactured imports reducing the demand for domestically manufactured goods. Massachusetts is uh and continues to be a strong leader in advanced in advanced manufacturing, but it's important for government and industry to continue to work together on a path to further growth. Uh, the importance of manufacturing in Massachusetts has never been more evident than during the COVID-19 pandemic of 2020 and 2021. The number of Massachusetts manufacturers who switched their production on short927 notice to provide our medical community with much needed personal protection equipment, uh and932 other uh needs was remarkable, and it936 was unprecedented.

Manufacturers produced masks, gowns, hand sanitizer and other products to protect our first responders and members of the public. It was a truly heroic response by so many Massachusetts manufacturers and the pandemic highlighted the importance of having manufacturing close to home. Under the leadership of Speaker Mariano and Senate President Spilka the legislature has made thoughtful investments in the sector and we continue to look for ways to improve production, provide high paying jobs for the residents of the commonwealth. And this bill is one way to further those efforts. So I thank you for any consideration and the opportunity to testify here today.
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[SEN O'CONNOR:] [SB2094] Thank you. Chairman Cabral and chairman Pacheco. I'm here to testify in support of Senate Bill 2094 which is an act relative to competition for specification of alternative types of colored pipes. I want to first start off by thanking1045 my constituent Justin Hoffman and Craig Hoffman from Scituate Concrete for being on the call today and I know that they're testifying later as well as Trygve Hoff who is here representing the American Concrete Pipe Association. Senate Bill 2094 will ensure that state and local infrastructure projects um have access to more appropriate and durable options for underground piping here in Massachusetts. Pursuant to this bill, state and local agencies would have the authority to determine which pipe materials may be included in construction projects for state funded roadways, provided that the pipe materials are designed using the latest guidance from the American Association of State Highway and Transportation officials pretty much the, the lead authority when it comes to these specific types of materials.

These specifications also require that the products that we use on our state roadways are guaranteed to last at least 100 years. Agencies would also be required to select materials for culvert pipes that meet the same AASHTO. Post installation requirements prior to final acceptance. This means that the pipes must be manufactured from non combustible and non toxic materials and that they must not be susceptible to any possibility of what's called hydrostatic flotation forces basically bursting and then they must also must attain a hydraulic design capacity for the lifespan of the project. In short, I know that a lot of that is uh very sort of high level stuff in the construction industry.

Uh, this bill increases our standards in Massachusetts for what the materials1148 we use in our roadways are going to be in Massachusetts. And1152 also the improvements that will be made in my opinion would be common sense and would also stimulate economic growth in our state because currently right now engineers are using and pretty much limited to plastic piping for culvert pipes in Massachusetts. And we're facing as we all know, an enormous plastic pollution problem here in the state and putting even more plastics beneath our soil in my opinion is just not the answer. Alternative materials such as concrete are proven to be durable, long lasting, reliable and non toxic and under certain circumstances we've seen here in the state, and I'm sure in some of our districts, roadways that have been um broken through with these plastic pipes that sometimes can float up and burst through specific roadways, creating even more of an issue.

Given the frequency of severe weather events and obviously what we could potentially have1207 in store for us in the future. I think it's prudent for us to give engineers1211 the ability to use durable pipe materials such as concrete, which in my opinion, are best suited for our roadways and especially essential roadways like evacuation routes. Culverts made of non plastic materials are made right here in Massachusetts too using local materials and local workers. Passing this legislation would not1228 only improve the1229 integrity of our transportation infrastructure. It would also be a significant economic stimulus through local manufacturers and1235 working families. I respectfully ask1237 that this bill be given a favorable report and I truly appreciate the time and consideration of the committee. Thank you. Mr. Chairman,
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[CABRAL:] A quick question. Uh, my understanding, I don't know, I haven't read every single line of the bill, but,1262 uh, some, for example, replacement or upgrading,1267 uh, natural gas lines, pressurized gas lines is what they're doing these days, it's happened in my community and other communities, I'm sure, um, they use the actual plastic piping. Uh, and I asked that question one time, um, and they said it's more durable less leaks. Um, would that impact that kind of work by the utilities as well?

[O'CONNOR:] This bill specifically towards culvert pipes Um, but what we want to do is really just expand and get a good view of everything that goes on sort of underground, when it comes to our infrastructure in Massachusetts. I think that when you look at the plastic piping in particular we can take them at face value that there may be less leaks and all these circumstances that they're presenting to us. But in my opinion, when we're looking at this and we're obviously facing a lot in Weymouth we're facing um natural gas infrastructure that in my opinion is inappropriate. But when it comes to this, it's it's talking about the durability, the longevity and the safety, um not just of individuals, but also the environment.

And I think that in the long term concrete piping is um for culverts in particular, is something that we, that we need to do. And the plastic piping having seen this firsthand, the plastic piping is just, it is what it is. It's, it's a pipe made out of plastic and toxic materials and something that really shouldn't be put under, under our in our soil. Um, so as far as the natural gas thing, I'd have to look into that, you know, specifically. But as far as culvert pipes, pipes go that we're talking about. I think that there's such a1376 good opportunity here to boost the local businesses that create this concrete here in Massachusetts, those who install it, those who sell it and be able to to change the way in which we're doing business in the state because plastic piping is important.
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[REP SCANLON:] [HB3229] Good morning everyone and thank you to Senate chair Pacheco and House chair Cabral and the honourable members of the committee for the opportunity to testify before you today. I am here to testify on behalf of H 3229 an act to procure public products or services from Massachusetts or the United States, Which is a bill that aims to prioritize Massachusetts and domestic businesses during the public procurement process. This bill is targeted is a targeted effort to reduce outsourcing while the Commonwealth navigates the economic fallout and recovery from the COVID-19 pandemic. In the 189th General Court this committee forwarded a similar legislative efforts to reduce outsourcing from the Commonwealth in the United States.

Now, as we enter a legislative mindset of recovery and build, we build, we believe it is time to follow through on that effort. In moments like these, it is the responsibility of the General Court to pursue legislation that1468 will strengthen the local economy and encourage long term economic growth. H 3229 establishes a mandate that the Commonwealth, in case of public procurement, much must purchase goods and services from Massachusetts based businesses. Under this legislation, the Commonwealth would be allowed to purchase goods and services from businesses outside of Massachusetts if a substantially equivalent good or service is available for 10% cheaper.

We are open to changes to this threshold. The ultimate goal is that this clause would ensure that the Massachusetts taxpayer is always getting a fair price and would discourage businesses from price-setting above market rates outside Massachusetts. This bill would limit outsourcing and the purchases of foreign goods and services. As a procurement of foreign products will only be permitted if the same goods and services are not available in the United States. As we anticipate the American jobs plan and begin to plan for the countless local projects will fund and jobs it will create H 32291532 would be harmonious with the broader legislative effort to promote job creation and new growth.

This legislation would ensure that the labor and goods providing for American job planned funded projects would be primarily sourced from within the commonwealth in the United States. The environmental impact of these projects will also be reduced as the environmental costs of international shipping and transport of goods and services. We are open to discussion for improvements to this legislation as I said, and I hope that this committee will act1565 to decouple from global supply1566 chains and reduce outsourcing as well as promote local job growth. With that, I respectfully ask for a favorable report on H 3229. Thank you so much.
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[REP BIELE:] [HB3107] Good, good morning Mr. Chairman. Uh thank you chair Pacheco for the opportunity to testify and for taking me out of turn. It's great to be with you and our colleagues this morning. I'm here to testify in support of H 3107 an1607 act relative to the employment of persons with disabilities on state contracts. In terms of background individuals with disabilities face an extremely high unemployment rate across the country and here in the commonwealth. Here in Massachusetts population of individuals with disabilities is approximately 389,500 and prior to the pandemic, 64% of those men and women were unemployed a number which I can only imagine increased over the last year, year and a half.

This legislation proposes to address that high unemployment rate by including hiring benchmarks for individuals with disabilities on state contracts such as janitorial and custodial services, landscaping services, mailroom services, food services, fleet management, manufacturing, trash removal, document destruction, electronic scanning of documents and facility management and hiring requirements would be phased in by 2% over five years. Um the legislation is modeled on the federal AbilityOne program, which was established by the Wagner O'Day Act and has the potential to create meaningful employment opportunities and address these high rates of unemployment.

Annually the federal AbilityOne program employs roughly 45,000 individuals per year who have disabilities on federal properties. Here in the commonwealth, the program employs uh individuals in a wide range of services and occupations such as mailroom, Hvac and other maintenance functions. Over the years, I have been fortunate to speak with workers employed through this program and toward their workplace. Um, and in each of these1709 conversations, the message has been clear and consistent. These are men and women who want to be in the workplace, make a paycheck and work with dignity and respect.

Uh huh. In addition to empowering individuals and putting them to work, this legislation is also fiscally responsible. According to the Massachusetts Office of Disabilities the cost of supporting a person with a disability enrolled in benefits is roughly $42,000 per year. Many of these individuals need and should receive benefits and there are countless others who are eager to join the workforce but are unable to find meaningful employment1741 opportunities. The study indicates that employing a person with a disability can eliminate payment of entitlement benefits while generating an average of roughly $7,000 per year from taxes collected on that job on that employment.

So looking at it holistically when an individual with a disability secures a full time competitive job the amount of money uh saved at the local, state and federal level is approximately $50,000. As we continue to discuss economic development, job creation, and workforce development coming out of this pandemic, we1775 also have an opportunity to create an inclusive economy, address the high unemployment rates for persons with disabilities and ensure that everyone has the opportunity to find work and the ability to succeed in the workplace by working with respect. So I appreciate your time and attention on this matter. I appreciate the engagement of the committee on this legislation in prior sessions. And I look forward to working with you again this session and hope that the bill is reported out with the favorable recommendation.
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[JAMES CASSETTA (WORK INC):] [HB3107] [SB2021] Thank you. Mr. Chairman. Hello Senator Pacheco and representative Cabral. Thank you for the opportunity To talk about H 3107 and Senate 2021 which are duplicate bills. Um, This is deja vu for us this is the sixth time we're actually testifying. And for those of you who remember the late Senator Fred Berry, He's the one that had asked us to really1888 uh, advocate for such legislation and as Rep Biele1892 just said, um, this is duplicative of the federal legislation. Um, that's, that's in existence. And for those of you who don't know, I'm the president and CEO of Work Inc, located right here in Dorchester And right in downtown Boston. Work Inc employees over 130 individuals with disabilities who used to be on entitlements. Now, they're working at the Tip O'Neill building, the Moakley Courthouse, um, McCormack Courthouse, in Post Office Square, the Springfield Mass. Federal Courthouse.

And we would love the commonwealth of Massachusetts to pass a first in the nation type of legislation. This would be pioneering. Actually, no other state in the country has such legislation. They have set-asides, but this would be a black. This would allow competitive integrated employment for individuals with disabilities. And I want to thank the over 70 co sponsors we've enjoyed having over since the legislation was first was first introduced six years ago. Uh Work Inc Serves over 1500 individuals with disabilities with barriers to employment with educational employment, residential and day, programs. Our primary focus is finding employment for the individuals we support. Towards that end, we train many individuals1976 with disabilities for jobs in custodial services, landscaping, food services,1980 fleet management, facility management, etcetera.

Many of you here today, as I just said, have seen our individuals working in and around Boston and all over Massachusetts. A few examples are we provide total facility management to the John F Kennedy Library right here in Dorchester custodial services to the Edward M Kennedy Institute, also located in Dorchester custodial services to the federal Moakley Federal Courthouse in Boston. The Tip O'Neill building in Boston, the Volpe Transportation Center in Cambridge, The VA Facility in New Bedford. And we also feed the soldiers at the Natick Army2021 Research Lab in Natick and custodial and landscaping services to the Federal Courthouse in Springfield, Mass. All these sites employ 75% of individuals with disabilities working those sites.

The proposed state legislation and as Representative Biele just alluded to is modeled after the Javits Wagner O'Day a federal law, which essentially says that the federal government contracts for goods and services and if individuals with significant disabilities can provide those goods and services, the federal2058 government must hire them. Not May we all know, musters a very important word in legislation and that's what we're advocating for here at here at Work Inc also. We at Work Inc have been providing these federal services to the federal sites For over 130 individuals for over 30 years. The legislation that you all are considering proposes a very modest 2% per year over the next five years, with the eventual requirement that employers who contract for2094 services within the commonwealth of Mass, hire no more than 10% of their workforce of individual for the individual disabilities.

And as as Rep Biele said, there is a $50,000 positive swing for every one person with a disability who gets a full-time job. Us taxpayers save $50,000 a year. So this legislation, unlike other pieces of legislation, you all are considering actually increases revenue to the commonwealth and not ask for revenue from the commonwealth. The proposed legislation you are considering today would allow state agencies, municipalities and state authorities to create thousands of jobs for individuals with disabilities without costing the commonwealth any more money. And I just said this would be the first such legislation law in the country. A lot of our colleagues in other states are looking towards Massachusetts because they know we pioneer progressive legislation like this.

And as said Rep Biele said there are almost 400,000 citizens in the Commonwealth Between the ages of 18 and 60 who depend on much needed public assistance. I've talked to hundreds if not thousands of folks like this in my 22 years here at Work Inc. They don't want to receive public assistance. They want to work. And as we again head towards a full employment economy this particular labor force wants to work and should have the opportunity to work. The unemployment rate amongst this population is over 65%. We are all supporting these individuals to our taxpayer dollars. These individuals would rather be working, earning a livable wage and paying taxes like the rest of us.

The legislation would guarantee that individuals with disabilities will be able to work and enjoy an improved quality of life while contributing back to society. The the what we can't count is how they feel about it. And I've talked to a lot of them, they2226 feel great about working, about spending time with colleagues, about going to lunch, et cetera. They don't want to sit home and and receive public assistance if they have the opportunity to work. And as you all probably know, we and we and you all in the commonwealth,2244 of Mass purchases over $7 billion worth of goods and services. And in in terms of that, those purchases there are there are set asides, if you will for women owned businesses, for minority business enterprises, for folks doing business in a disadvantaged business community. There's zero opportunity for individuals with disabilities to get any of those jobs.

So all we're asking for if a business wins a state contract and if a person with a disability can work in that particular state contract we're going to require that particular business to employ no more than 2% of folks with disabilities. So if there's 100 workers we're going to ask them orrequire them to employ two people and thats integration. That's competitively competitive Integrated employment. And I know the devil will be in the details. So we're asking that the when the regulations get written, we will we will protect small employers. We want to make sure no one loses their jobs as a result of this legislation. And we would probably schedule it as jobs open up. We're going to ask the first people who win those contracts to employ folks with disabilities. And agencies like Community Work Services and Work Inc and a lot of other rehab agencies we have people waiting to get jobs. So there will be no problem in recruiting individuals with disabilities. Thank you all for, for the time I appreciate it.

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[CABRAL:] I just have a quick question or a couple of questions. One is, I know you talked about jobs, uh, do you have an estimate of exactly how many jobs this could create? I know it could be in the thousands, but if

[CASSETTA:] you know, you know, web um, I think at the outset it could be in the hundreds at the outset because this is, like I said, it's pioneering legislation it's new, but the experience, we've had it Work Inc for over 55 years in the federal side of the house, we employ 130 individuals with disabilities in every federal site in Massachusetts. And there aren't many federal sites in Massachusetts. But as I said, When you, when you contract for $7 billion worth of work, that's a lot of employers out there And we know we have people in the wings ready to go to work in custodial. So I think it would be at the outset, it would be 2% is not a big number, but I think it could be hundreds of jobs at the outset would be phenomenal stuff.

[CABRAL:] You said, this is the 6th legislative session that this bill has been filed. You know,

[CASSETTA:] Maybe it's the third legislative session. We've been working on this for six years.

[CABRAL:] Okay. Uh, in an event, do you know, what's the opposition that you have felt was in the past?

[CASSETTA:] You know, it's interesting you ask that we we've when we first when Senator Berry and I actually met with the governor several years ago Um he he strong from from what he said, he strongly would support it if we can get the local chambers and the business community to help support it. So you all will be, we've met with every chamber of commerce basically in the commonwealth and I know, the Quincy Chamber of Commerce already sent a letter, Tim Cahill, former colleague of all of you guys, um sent a letter support. We met with Peter Forman, um Jim Rooney Tim Murray. They2464 are eagerly supporting something like this. So I think we're2466 going to be in good shape. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
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[MATTHEW BORRELLI (TOWN OF NEEDHAM):] [HB3151] But um here to support the request that snow hauling and removing The exempt from provisions of 30B as is snowplowing right now under number 17. And it will really allow the town greater2560 flexibility and broaden our applicant pool2561 for hiring. Right now and Carys can speak to this. But the money is really in the hauling and removal. And we were able prior to have the plowers do that and they would join us because there was money doing the the plowing and the removal. But right now because it's separate, we're having trouble getting applicants to plow and then we will have to procure for removal.

So it's really been difficult for the town of Needham. We've heard from our constituents that's been uh you know, difficult. We want to make sure that they're happy with our plowing. And then Cash can talk about how it's been difficult on her end to hire and retain some of these powers and contractors to help the town. It's a safety issue, you know, just simplify things and I think if there were exempt it would go back to how it was and make it just a better process for us to plow the towns of Needham and2611 for the whole commonwealth um as well. So with that I will turn that over to Carys that. That's okay. Mr Chairman?

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[CARYS LUSTIG (TOWN OF NEEDHAM):] [HB3151] My name is Carys Lustig I'm the Director of Public Works for the Town of Needham. I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak today. Um, the2628 town of Needham's Department of Public Works, reached out to Representative Garlick about our struggles with procuring snow removal services and requested that she filed this legislation to assist us in this process. Um Snow2639 removal is becoming an increasingly difficult task for municipalities to undertake. Needham supplements 50% of2645 its snowplowing operations with plowing private companies to maintain roads during plowable snow events. Presently there's a regional shortage of interested snow removal equipment and drivers.

This is putting additional strain on an increasingly high demand operation, where residents, businesses and schools have high expectations about how quickly roads, sidewalks, parking lots, bike lanes in other areas are cleared for safe passage by all. My experiences both in both purchasing and in public works leads me to believe that 30B is not an appropriate tool for procuring all services related to snow removal. Just as snowplowing has been exempted from the requirements of 30B I believe that snow removal services such as hauling should also be exempted. Under the current law and interpretation snowplowing is exempt and we believe that communities can maintain fairness, equity and fiscal responsibility using an alternative method of procurement.

Needham advertises the need for plow drivers and equipment using multiple sources and methods. We published our contract terms and fixed prices. We periodically survey neighboring communities to ensure that our prices and conditions are fair. For the past 20 years the town has not declined an interested party from participating in this program provided they meet our town the town's requirements. The same reasons that make Chapter 30B inappropriate for snowplowing can also be applied to other time sensitive snow removal services. In towns like Needham there isn't one large or even many large contractors who provide snow removal. We rely on very small contractors that bring one to four pieces of equipment into the town.

When the IG clarified his interpretation of the snowplowing exemption, Needham didn't trust its practices to2744 follow 30B. We had six contractors that provided 14 pieces of heavy equipment immediately leave the town of Needham. Prior to this clarification all of our plowing contractors um had to had to plow for the2758 town in order to be eligible for the hauling process. Hauling is2761 easier on the equipment and staff and it's seen as an incentive by contractors to participate in a grueling plowing program. We have a contract, we have pursued2771 contractors under 30B. We've gone out to bid four times and we've never received more than two vendors on a public bid. The first time we went out to bid, the contractor that was selected was unable to provide enough pieces of equipment for the town.

The current contractor that we have, who was awarded the awarded the contract under low bid is able to provide the needed equipment but does so offering our existing plowing contractors the opportunity to haul. This item is going back out to2799 bid this year and we have concerns that if those practices don't continue, we may lose additional plowing contractors in the upcoming snow season. Snow removal is different than other 30B services. It's unpredictable. In one year we could have no events and in the following year we can have 50 events and there's no good remedy under Chapter 30B due to the proximity of storms and the needs to the need to have roads and lots cleared as quickly as possible.

The process of plowing and other snow research, snow removal services are critically linked and separating the two reduces incentives for an already depleted plow operator and equipment industry. We do believe that a fair2838 open and transparent process is appropriate for these services. These services just as the one I've outlined above in our um plowing operation but I do not believe that the low bid process in Chapter 30B is the best method for achieving those goals.
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[SEN PACHECO:] Yeah. I just wanted to uh to ask to the extent that you've had any conversations with the IG's Office on uh this piece of legislation.

[LUSTIG:] Um I have spoken to the IG's Office on their 30 B. Hotline on several occasions on this legislation, particularly when we were trying to um look at the interpretation they had regarding the exemption for snowplowing, which was our understanding had been traditionally applied to hauling as well. Um, when I spoke with the individuals in the office, um, they2902 simply indicated that they did not believe that hauling was exempted as uh,2906 in how the legislation was currently written, um, and that they could not apply an exemption to hauling.2912 Um, we indicated the problems that we had and2915 the individuals that I spoke to acknowledged those problems but could not provide a remedy.

[PACHECO:] Okay, well, thank you very much. I mean, I'm willing to, uh, take a look at, you know, this legislation, you know, personally, I think you can understand why a lot of, uh, the contracts2937 have come in under 30B. Historically if you look back over the history of contracting out of services in the commonwealth, we actually had a lot of corruption uh, with services. Uh, public services going out in the, uh, in the waste management area and issues like contracting for hauling these types of things when there is not an alternative, uh, procurement process that is very public and transparent and where you have accountability. Uh, so I would like to, uh, see some of some of your suggestions that you're utilizing locally, you know, as alternative procurement processes, uh, something the committee may want to take a look at.

But, but when you, you know, you want to measure everything up against the history as to why we have some of the statutes that are on the books and why we want to make sure we continue to have, uh, really, you know, rooting out any type of opportunity, uh, for inappropriateness and corruption. I'm certainly not saying anything like that that's going on you know, when in your community, I'm just talking about in general how, how when we do an exemption, it will3031 be exempt you know, statewide. So it would be interesting to have maybe a further conversation maybe with a subcommittee of our our group here with the IG. And just taking a look at some of the specific problems3047 that you're having in terms of managing the program to get people to respond.

And I think we're going to see that a lot across some other sectors with the future of work and with having enough people in different sectors uh to uh to be there to accomplish the needs for cities and towns. But I thank you very much for your testimony3072 and uh anything like that you can share with my office. I know I'd be very interested in in taking a look at it3081 and I know that Senator Rausch would would be you know will be on this anyway but but I thank you very much for your testimony.
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[REP GARLICK:] [HB3151] Um, Chairman, I just, thank you. I know that you've heard from the experts in my town on H 3151 on the snow hauling and removal. And I just wanted to say that in 2016 when they were changes in procurement, an unintended consequence was that we didn't include snow hauling. So when we look at a busy downtown or other densely populated areas to plow and not be able to3194 remove the snow is just to add an extra impediment for visibility and other issues that I'm sure our very capable Director of Department of Public Works3202 has discussed with you. In any way I continue to be helpful to you in to the committee Um Please count on me um in your deliberations moving forward.
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[TRYGVE HOFF (ACPA):] [SB2094] thank you Chairman Kabul Sarah Pacheco members of the committee. My name is Trygve Hoff I'm a civil engineer employed by the American Concrete Pipe Association and I'm testifying on behalf of the association in support of Senate Bill 2094. The American Concrete Pipe Association is a non-profit organization founded more than 100 years ago3277 to serve as the voice of the concrete pipe industry. Today, ACPA represents over 90% of the manufacturers of concrete pipe3284 in the US covering nearly 300 production facilities across the country. You'll be hearing testimony from one of our members Scituate Concrete Pipe.

And as Justin Hoffman is going to note, the bill would preserve for engineers the decision making authority to determine which culvert pipe materials are suitable for publicly funded infrastructure projects, provided that those pipes meet certain quality standards. For evacuation routes however, the bill would raise the minimum quality3310 standards required for culvert pipes placed beneath them. I'd like to focus the rest of my testimony on this particular aspect of the bill. As you know, the resilient Massachusetts Action Team. The state's implementation body for its hazard mitigation and climate adaptation plan is in the process of developing climate resilient standards which would account for future climate changes over the design life of infrastructure projects.

The features found on lines 11 through 13 of S 2094 would help facilitate just that. It calls for the pipe material to be non toxic, non-flammable, and maintain a lifelong resistance to flotation. Extreme events and sea-level rise can lead to failures of less durable culvert materials. For3353 example, lightweight culverts can float upward through the roadway surface or wash downstream during major events and damagde culverts can lead to erosion of the backfill that ultimately results in roadway sinkholes. Examples of these types of failures are not hard to find. Just consider the impacts of Tropical Storm Irene in 2011. Another way for a culvert to fail is if it burns in accidental manmade or wildfires. Now, although this problem is more common in the dry, drought prone Western states, Massachusetts isn't immune to wildfires or transportation accidents.

The 3rd and final proposed new3386 standard is non-toxicity. Culvert pipes should perform for3390 more than 75 years. If a pipe is leaching toxic chemicals or microplastics into the soil and the waterways surrounding a major thoroughfare for 75 years, it will create future problems for residents and local governments alike. Accounting for these durability concerns will help to meet the commonwealth's resiliency goals. That concludes my testimony. Thank you for your consideration of the testimony and I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.
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[JUSTIN HOFFMAN (SCITUATE CONCRETE PRODUCTS):] [SB2094] Um and members of the committee, my name is Justin Hoffman, I'm the vice president, president of Scituate concrete Products. I'm testifying and3444 supporting this bill. Scituate Concrete Products is a third-generation family-owned business headquartered in Scituate Massachusetts. We produce concrete pipe and other precast concrete products for state agencies.3456 Two years ago we approached our senator, state Senator Patrick O'Connor concerning the3462 use of plastic, HDPE pipe and local infrastructure on state-funded construction projects.

Through the research, it was alarming to see the bills around the country that would replace sound engineering decisions with a one size fits all mandate on pipe materials. We were concerned this would happen in Massachusetts. The US Congress had dealt with this issue about a decade ago. It was considering a big transportation bill. Their solution, which remains a part of federal law today was to give the states3499 autonomy to choose culvert pipe material. That essentially was what S 2094 does but on a state level. We believe that it's a good policy in this and in the state's best interest to ensure that pipe materials are of the highest3516 quality.

By limiting projects where plastic pipe is used to only projects where an engineer deems plastic pipe to be sustainable or necessary. S 2094 would close the door to any unnecessary use of plastic pipe. In the concrete products industry, we receive quality standards and certifications by the NPCA National Precast Association. This allows us to be qualified for these Mass DOP Projects produced concrete products that are made locally by different companies in New England that employ hundreds of Massachusetts residents. Some of the other advantages of concrete3556 products besides being made locally are the outstanding proven longevity as a dependable construction material.

The environmental advantages are clear as we use recycled content plus locally harvested mined and natural materials plus safety as it will not burn from fire to form collapse under heat. Concrete products' weight is what prevents it from being washed out in heavy storm conditions and roadways like plastic products have been. Massachusetts deserve the best products to be installed to guarantee safe roadways especially on high traffic roads and evacuation roads during emergencies. In closing I want to thank Senator Patrick O'Connor for meeting with us listening to our concerns and sponsoring this legislation.
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[HOFFMAN:] The only thing I just wanted to clarify that this is this is for stormwater application and not you know, plastic gas lines or you know, or you know, sometimes in sewer application.
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[PACHECO:] I have no questions at this time, but I would like to follow up through uh Senator O'Connor with with Mr Hoffman and Mr Hoff, relative to the resiliency and adaptation uh in terms of the material and some materials that are used to mixed with concrete and uh I know that the oxidty of some of these chemicals uh that sometimes utilized uh could impact the poorest nature of of uh you know, concrete applications. So I would like to uh you know, just follow up and have some specific questions uh answered uh in terms of the environmental side of what Mr Hoff talked about uh originally because I think that's very important.

Certainly we know with plastics there there are some significant oxidity issues we're learning about PFAS being one of them. Uh And and uh there are some new questions that are coming up more readily with some of the biosolids for example, that are being processed. A side product of that process is is being utilized to mix uh within concrete as a way to um take care of the waste waste products. Uh that may historically have been uh an okay thing to do except we're finding out now some of that byproduct has an extreme amount of PFAS in it. So I would like to just follow up with that questioning and making sure we know what is what is actually going on with it uh you know that would be really helpful to me, so thank you very much. And if you could just follow my office will we'll be glad to talk to you about those concerns.
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[KEITH SAXON (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [HB3212] Thank you. Distinguished chairs and committee members. My name is Keith Saxon. I'm a 25 year environmental professional from and over who has3851 served on solid waste and recycling advisory committees in three Massachusetts towns including Needham, I'm here to ask for your support again for House 3212. I had a similar bill before your committee last session. Uh, you did pass for a positive recommendation, at least for the first rating, so I appreciate that. And looking hopefully to have that again. 3212 eliminates the exemption for solid waste and recycling services from the 30B3882 Uniform Procurement Act, creating both environmental and financial benefits to both municipalities and taxpayers.

These services cost residents um oh yeah, second uh cost residents, I can't move the slides anyway. Um that's my fault.3903 But whatever these services cost municipalities millions of dollars annually, both collectively and individually. Uh significant cost alone justifies ensuring that these services get the benefits and protections provided under the 30B public bidding law. As Chairman Pacheco mentioned about, you know, the historic history3921 of why some of these major contracts went to 30B. But then when you add the importance of these services both to residents and the impact they have on the environment is just another huge reason why um3934 these services should not be exempt from 30B. And that's really by having them not exempt we foster the innovation and recycling waste management and overall materials recovery.

The 30B process provides true competition and what really, what's critical is the certainty of a process for the risk reward of putting in a bid. And that's an opportunity for innovation in a particular space or element of waste management. If you think about dumpsters at town buildings and schools versus curbside collection we're talking entirely different universes. You know, there's only a handful of contractors can can do curbside collection throughout an entire community versus dozens if not hundreds that can serve as dumpsters at a fixed facility. So right there, you've, you've got, you know, cost competition, uh, you know, better, better value for dollars. But then when you add, you know, the one offs handle, you know what are called hard to manage items. Uh, the opportunities go on.

You know, you can talk about public space, uh, containers, both recycling and trash that you know, a smaller company with a smaller truck or smaller group can can service much more efficiently than these larger companies. If you're talking about composting, you know, there's a lot of discussion about having curbside composting or having composting option that many residents want. And, you know, small companies can do this, they have the equipment that's more geared towards it. Uh And again, if they know that they can competitively bid, then they have an opportunity. And you know, other opportunities are out there, whether it's textile recycling, whether it's bulky materials like furniture or scrap metal, or even contracts to uh to justify, you know, the electric trash vehicles.

You know, in Andover we purchased electric lawn mowing equipment and they do have electric trash collection. You know, if that was a component of a 301B bid that someone knows that could be competitively bid and it would be a fair process, they have the incentive to do it. So, Um, you know, the reality is without the 30B process is that most towns end up going with one of the larger contractors who may or may not be able to do this. Um, do some of the extras if you will, or some of the innovation. Uh, and there just isn't the incentive. I know, and in Andover I4077 spoke with a lot of our contractors and the feeling was without 30B that yeah they might do an RFQ they might ask.

But they didn't have the certainty that their effort was worth it if they put in a competitive bid because historically the town had gone with one contractor. So You know I urge you to support this bill and ask for appreciate your past support because not having the 30B. Process for these significant contracts is not the best value for taxpayers or municipalities or for the environment. In short4107 it's wasteful. But I urge you to unlock the competition4111 and innovation by supporting House 3212 And again thank you for your time and consideration and thank you to Representative Nguyen for sponsoring the bill this session. With that I'm I'm done.
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