2021-09-29 00:00:00 - Joint Committee on Telecommunications, Utilities and Energy
2021-09-29 00:00:00 - Joint Committee on Telecommunications, Utilities and Energy
(Part 2 of 2)
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
I Mhm. Uh Mhm. Mhm. Mhm.
And I asked whether we're going to return to mr dale soon, but I want to ask first of all whether Michael doughty from Green Works lending is with us and prepared to testify. Yes. Chair20 Barrett. I am here. Why don't you take the floor sir?
[MICHAEL DOTY (GREEN WORKS LENDING):] [HB3276] Thank you. Good morning. Chair barrett. Chair Roy. Um First I'd like to thank the committee for the opportunity to testify on behalf of H 3276 and act to expand the eligibility35 of commercial property assessed clean energy. My name is Mike Doherty and I'm the director for green works lending from Nuveen in New England. Green works43 lending is a national leader of C pace across the country, having provided C-based financing to over 400 commercial properties with investments totaling $500 million 26 states. These investments have enabled building owners to reduce costs by $720 million 1.1 million tons of carbon61 dioxide from being released into the atmosphere. This is the equivalent of taking over 240,000 cars off the road. Headquartered in69 darien Connecticut. Green works lending has a deep commitment to the communities of doing remarks. Is74 proud to be the first CPS provider to have funded a project in massachusetts Since 2016. When this body adopted CPS legislation, we have seen it evolved into a highly effective national program for property developers and building owners88 to invest in Brazilian renewable and energy efficient technologies.
See places a successful financing tool that has benefited the existing building sector by reducing energy costs, improving building values and cutting energy waste. Unfortunately, under current statute, only existing buildings are eligible not new development. There is an opportunity in the state to drive those same economic and environmental benefits for new buildings by amending the current legislation so that new construction is eligible for sea bass. When developers are investing in the construction of new buildings or renovation of previously vacant buildings is important that see pace financing is an option for them to consider. At this juncture, developers begin purchasing equipment and making decisions about building design as well as what equipment to purchase. Having the ability to access. See paste funds will motivate them to make a choice that produces a more efficient and resilient building. These types of projects have accounted for more than 60% of the public benefit.
Our organization was able to facilitate in 2020, An estimated impact of over 1300 jobs, among other things. States including154 Connecticut, new york pennsylvania and was recently, New Jersey have all authorized and updated their standards regarding the use of C paste funds on new construction or cut rehabilitation to ensure the full benefit of higher cost energy efficiency, renewable energy and resiliency features may be funded with C pace only massachusetts has not the proposed legislation you have before. You will help bring massachusetts in line with other states in the region by using existing standards already in place in massachusetts in allowing see pays to be a catalyst for more private investment in clean energy, low carbon building, construction and renovation. The stringent energy codes in massachusetts that have been adopted and are being considered by this committee have put massachusetts as a leader in the sustainable future197 for its residents. Bringing in these standards for C Pace is a common sense approach to to engage members of the developer community to further their adoption of green building practices as the industry standard. Uh, I hear my time here. So just wanted to say we were submitting written testimony with more detail and by passing this legislation, you will significantly further carbon reduction job growth in economic activity for all those who live and work in massachusetts. Thank you again for the time.
[BARRETT:] Mr Doherty I'm going to invite you to wolf to to comment on Mr Hendricks remarks of a moment ago and and then I'm going to invite Mr Herek if he wishes to comment on your remarks. I want to make sure that committee members are able to distinguish if uh, distinctions are to be drawn between the bill you're now advocating and the extension253 of Pace to consumers. Do you have a comment to make about Mr Hendricks testimony of a moment ago and I really appreciate what you are talking about here.
[DOTY:] Yeah, I do and I really appreciate the opportunity. I didn't want to of course my dog start to derail the opportunity to discuss the and C Pace, but importantly,
[BARRETT:] we don't understand the acronym by the way, we don't know Pace from seat pace necessarily. So your we want to make sure that we understand the distinction you're drawing.
[DOTY:] Absolutely. So CPACE stands for commercial property assessed clean energy and the bills Mr Herek was speaking out against would establish R Pace programs which stands for residential property assessed clean energy. Uh C Pace is only available for commercial buildings and as Mr Herek mentioned and I agree with uh those are loans for individuals who often own multiple properties who have a level of sophistication with debt and investments in their buildings that would go beyond some of the communities that were impacted by R Pace legislation across the country. Also, the scale of the loans is different. So the amount of actors and eyes and professionalize particularly on the engineering side tend to be much greater on commercial Pace programs, which is why I believe. And I agree with Mr Herek that there haven't been any consumer protection concerns with commercial Pace across the country.
And Green Works lending. Our organization only participates in commercial lending. So I won't speak to the details of residential. Let me ask, let me ask the following question355 just to make sure the committee understands us why why were new buildings exempted from the Pace program with the legislature originally, legislative Pace at sort of a brief answer if you can. Absolute. Um so it was371 the original legislation was passed in 2016 and pace was originally thought for uh a way to address the built environment. And over the last five years it has evolved to effectively address the new construction environment as well. And I think that it's just a standard that was missed based on the time that it was originally considered until now.
[BARRETT:] Thank you. Okay, Mr Barrett Do you have any comments and mr duties uh testimony with respect to new construction?
[HARAK:] Yeah, just briefly and mr Chairman as you know, we don't hold ourselves out as experts on commercial but we have looked at it um uh as you know, it is much easier and less expensive to incorporate energy efficiency at the time of new construction. So to the extent C Pace has worked in the built environment and it is not created consumer problems. And again, we haven't seen any, it would seem to me to make sense to expand it. I will emphasis also that the model of how it's delivered is so fundamentally different talking in the commercial space of sophisticated owners who aren't going to go ahead and do anything to their building without being careful about it in the residential space. We've had truly fraudulent contractors lying that it's a government program that's going to cost you nothing targeting communities that speak spanish, you're just not going to see that in the commercial space, these are fundamentally different models and I want to emphasize as California not only had very extensive consumer protections, it's an original bill, but then amended the statute with extensive further consumer protections precisely because of the problems I have testified to. So I encourage you to think separately about466 Cps. Um and we have no objection to where Mr Doherty would like the legislature to472 go.
Are there questions of Mr Doty from the committee
hearing? None. We want to thank you sir. And we want to thank you both for testifying on this issue and helping us keep some key distinctions in mind.
We're now going to move488 to consideration of S 21 32 an act instituting a governance structure for mass save
uh is Mr Michael Goldman of every source in the house. Yes, I501 am here. And I believe we're going to do this as a panel with a colleague. Chris porter from national grid. Terrific. We would welcome you as a panel. And then uh if Mr Dale's prepared to testify after you folks? We'll hear from Mr Dale who had some trouble technologically with us earlier. I see Mr Dale on camera, are you prepared to testify after? After every source of national grid? Yes, I believe I am. Thank you. Thank you sir. Thank you.528 I will look forward to hearing your testimony. Mr Goldman. Why don't you531 proceed uh with Mr porter, our profound,
very good, thank you so much. Um I think chris if you'd like to go first and then I will follow up with some complimentary comments.
[CHRIS PORTER (NATIONAL GRID):] Absolutely. Thank you. Chair Roy Chair Barrett Members of the committee. Thank you for the time this morning. My name is Chris Porter and I lead energy efficiency programs, strategy policy and planning for562 national grid, appreciate the opportunity to be back before your committee this morning first. I'd like to express national grids support for the commonwealth efforts to achieve carbon neutrality by 2050. I'm proud to say that Mass Save has been a leading driver of GHG emission reductions in the commonwealth over the last decade. And we are grateful for the legislature's leadership and providing the framework through which those results have been achieved yesterday in recognition of a decade of mass save success. The program administrators released our path to carbon neutrality report an overview of how our nation593 leading energy efficiency programs have contributed to progress towards the commonwealth net zero goal highlighted in that report over the last decade, our programs have resulted in weatherization of over 250 Holmes and counting Nearly 3.8 million metric tons of carbon dioxide equivalent greenhouse gas emission reductions, the equivalent of taking nearly 800,000 cars off the road for every dollar spent on energy efficiency.
In the Commonwealth Customers have realised $4 in benefits resulting in a collective $27.4 billion Massachusetts residents and businesses over the last decade. In 2020 alone are programs also led to $200 million dollars in annual bill savings for residential customers. We believe that these results demonstrate that the mass save program administrators are uniquely positioned to engage customers and to drive residents and businesses in the commonwealth to take the actions at the scale necessary to achieve our collective ambitious decarbonization goals. We also believe that the current massive governance structure fundamentally works. Responsibility by the program administrators for delivering savings subject to a robust stakeholder process and strict regulatory oversight is directly linked to accountability for the program administrators.
We're also not content to rest on this track record and recognize both the challenge ahead as well as the mandate to refocus our efforts beyond energy efficiency in order to enable the transformation of the eating market in massachusetts, we are committed to implementing relevant provisions of the climate legislation passed and signed into law earlier this year, including a substantially increased focus on reducing emissions from the building sector to this end, we are implementing an intentional three pillars strategy working with customers, h fact contractors and distributors and manufacturers to fundamentally transform the heating and cooling market in massachusetts in many ways similar to how we have transition the lighting market leads over the last decade, as highlighted last week in our presentation to the massachusetts Energy efficiency advisory council. The current draft of the program administrators, 22-24-3-year plan proposes $894 million dollars in electrification centers, including for the first time incentives to promote customer conversion from heating with natural gas to electric heat pumps. Um, if I could have 30 more seconds just to728 ensure, wrap it up. Thank you. Um,
this budget we believe will lead to the installation of high efficiency electric heat pumps at nearly 50,000 households and over 60 million square feet of commercial industrial space over the next three years. Um, as alluded to earlier, there's also been a focus on equity um in the course of748 the next plan, um in written comments will provide details on the uh, on this specific detailed commitments we're making on that front to address serving757 many of the sectors highlighted by by previous commenters. I'll just concluded by saying by saying that addressing the climate challenge before us will require action at an unprecedented scale and massive, massive program administrators are up to the task. Thank you again for the time today. We look forward to continuing department with the Legislature and with our other stakeholders across the commonwealth and creating affordable and equitable clean energy solutions for all.
Thank you. Mr Porter. Mr Goldman.
[MICHAEL GOLDMAN (EVERSOURCE ENERGY):] Yes. Good morning. Chairman Barrett. Chairman Roy and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony today. My name is Michael Goldman on the Director of ever source energy, supporting our customer energy programs. I'd like to use my time today to talk about the success of mass save and the current level of rigorous oversight and reporting requirements800 that the massive programs are subject to. These requirements mainly have the Foundation in the Green Communities Act every three years. The Save programme administrators with the PS are required by law to develop and file and energy efficiency812 plan. The PS work in close coordination with the energy efficiency advisory council, the EEC Department of Energy Resources, the Attorney General's office and other stakeholders to develop the three year plan. The first draft of the three year plan must be submitted to the EC for approval or comment by april 30th with an additional draft shared with invented by the EEC.
Prior to finalising plans that are then submitted to the Department of public utilities For review and approval by October 31. The department is subsequently responsible for reviewing and improving the planned. This is a fully adjudicated process that normally involves a large number of interveners. The Ec is the reviewing body of energy efficiency of mode management resources. The has the ability to review and comment on demand resource program plans and budgets. Members of the EEC include one member representing each of the following residential consumers. The low income weatherization fuel assistance program. Network, the environmental community businesses including large and I. End users. The manufacturing industry energy efficiency experts, organized labor, the Department of Environmental Protection, the Attorney General, the executive office of Housing and Economic Development. The massachusetts nonprofit network a city or town in the commonwealth.
The massachusetts Association of realtors, a business employing fewer than 10 people located in the commonwealth that perform energy efficiency services and the Department of Energy Resources. The program administrators have consistent reporting requirements on planned progress and implementation, both to the A. C. And Department of public utilities. But my account there are at least 23 publicly accessible reports filed each year. The Pease are required to submit quarterly reports to the EEC demonstrating progress on the plan and the A. C. Meets monthly discussed energy efficiency matters and is open to the public during these monthly meetings. The PS percent dashboards with extensive data. Just last week over 150 people were in attendance at the meeting this year. The E. P. A. See also hosted topic focused workshops and923 listening sessions on the three924 year plan development.
In addition to the regular monthly EC meetings upon completion of each year of the three year term, each program administrator submits an energy efficiency annual report to the DPU that details its performance during that year. Upon completion me upon completion of each three year term, each program administrator submits an energy efficiency three year term report to the DPU947 the details948 performance during the applicable term. Should a program administrator not be found to reasonably comply with the plan. The department can open an investigation levy a fine on that program administrator. Again, I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today about the massive programs and affirm the massive program administrators commitment to the achievement of the commonwealth decarbonization goals. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Mr Goldman, Are there questions of Mr Goldman and Mr Porter?
[REP ROY:] Yes, Mr Chair. Just a couple of follow up questions that Um I know that the road map bill has some additional requirements on uh mass save and I'm wondering how those will be addressed in the upcoming plan that you have for 20-24. And what can we expect to be different about mass save In the next three years?
[GOLDMAN:] Sure. Thank you. Chair Roy Mike. Maybe I'll start and then you can chime in um I'd say the primary change and is reflected in the draft numbers that we presented to the ea c last week really reflect the greenhouse gas reduction target established by E A. Um and expected of the1031 plans and so the plan that we put forward and that will continue to be refined through our ultimate filing at the end of october will demonstrate we believe credible pathway to achieving that target with a significantly increased focus on building electrification that has historically been the case through these plans and through our programs prior prior to the uh uh implementation of the passage of the Climate Act. Um but that ultimately present again, a credible pathway to achieving achieving those targets while as always balancing all of the considerations that were charged with um, in developing and administering programs including equitable access to and receive benefits from, from the programs uh, and being mindful of bill impacts, um, and other impacts on the customers who pay into and ultimately fund these programs.
[GOLDMAN:]I would just quickly reiterate a point that that Mr Porter touched on, which1097 is a really a re uh prioritization towards greenhouse gas reduction goals. I think that what you will see in this october plan is a plan that complies with the1110 letter we received in july of this year with the target from the Secretary of EEA A. EEA. And a plan that really focuses on, um, not just greenhouse gas reduction emissions, although that's, that's certainly one of the priorities of the main priority, but then also some of those other very important topics like equity, like workforce development. So I'm very excited to be able to share that plan shortly.
[ROY:] Um, just one follow up, you know, I'm sure you're well aware of some of the news reports that have called into question some of the things that Mass save is doing and you know, in particular one of the rebate forms suggesting that the program does not recommend heat pumps. Can you give me some response uh, to some of those criticisms and let me know if we can expect some changes with regard to those particular concerns in the upcoming plan.
[PORTER:] Yes, absolutely. Thank thank you for the question. And so, you know, let me, let me start by saying that, you know, in the appropriate settings. The program administrators absolutely believe that heat pump technologies can meet the full heating notes, heating needs. Excuse me of Homes in the massachusetts. Climate, the specific language that you're referring to is that historically, um, the program administrators have not recommended that homeowners installing heat pumps moved directly to what's known as a full conversion, essentially removing an existing heating system, um, and installing a heat pump fully in place of that heating system that should not be interpreted as a lack of support1225 for building electrification or high efficiency heat pumps as, as a form of um, heating1232 on the, on the contrary, were very supportive of that. It will be much more supportive through incentives and budgets, um, in the upcoming programs.
Um, while air source heat pump technology is not a new technology. Um, the market in massachusetts still relatively nation.1254 And um, and at this stage of the market development, we feel it is absolutely essential that the early adopting customers who install this technology have a positive experience with that technology, um, and become evangelists with their friends and neighbors and colleagues for air source heat pumps. That that happening is foundational to the success in the long term growth of the building electrification market.1279 Um, in massachusetts. Um, and so at this stage of the market. You know, our experience has been that in most situations of partial displacement or a hybrid system is more likely to lead to that positive customer experience. But certainly we're going to continue to evaluate that and changes to that will be reflected um, in program changes coming with the, you know, coming1305 in the in the in the next term.
[ROY:] Uh, thank you so much. I appreciate the update and look forward1313 to seeing the plan as soon as it's available and thank you mr Chairman for the opportunity to ask the questions.
Thank you. MR Chairman. Are there1323 additional questions?
I see that Senate Pacheco has his hand up. Uh, yes. Senator Pacheco uh, by all means send a particular, I'm sorry and I should know this. Um,
well in any particular, why don't you, why don't you ask your question now? Yes. Can you, can you hear me?
Yes, yes, we can. Senator.
[PACHECO:] Okay, great. Thank you. I'm in a different location and uh, I am glad that I got on right now because the mass a program has been something that supported that has been very much of a concern to me. Uh, as you know, the administration's 2050 Decarbonization plan came out even before the No emissions reduction mandates in the next 10 roadmaps. Uh, well, codified, correct to me, the administration had decarbonization plan out before calling for a million Holmes to uh, you know, have retrofits and Doing about 100,000 homes a year, uh, you are aware of that, correct?
[PORTER:] Yes. Senator.
[PACHECO:] And you are aware as the House chair just indicated that after an investigative journalists looked at Where we were on that, I think they came up with a total of 457 Holmes Are you aware of that?
[PORTER:] So, I'm aware of that reporting though. I think that that number is, you know, uh quite incomplete. Um look and and picture of the current situation because it was narrowly focused only on on these full displacements. Um, if you look at the entire market inclusive of the partial displacements, um, not1457 only have the program administrators um delivered um, you know, many multiples of that over the last several years. We have also,
[PACHECO:] if I can stop you, would you agree that it's woefully lower. The outcome is woefully lower Than the 100,000 homes or properties that would be retrofitted under the decarbonization plant?
[PORTER:] So I would, I would reiterate the program administrators support for the decarbonization goals laid out by the commonwealth and the target that have been produced by by by by EEA. Um, I'll also say that the plan that we we shared with the EEAC on september and that will ultimately the submitted to the DP to the EEAC for consideration in october into the DPU at the end of october will meet the overall decarbonization target um that has been assigned to the programs by
[PACHECO:] Well, let me, let me just say uh through the chairs to to you and Mass save. I hope so because what I see so far is uh a program that as you know, the utilities have had a lot to do with and a lot of foot dragging here in terms of achieving even the administrative goals that were put in place by the administration. I am pleased to see that the secretary ended up reducing in writing to1581 mass save a pretty stern letter asking for a lot more improvement. And I hope that we get that improvement that comes back because we're talking about a climate crisis here in everybody including the utilities. We've got to get moving, we've got to take all these words in these, all this philosophy and everything else we talk about and turn them into action like yesterday is what we need to do. And so I would certainly appreciate that happening. And I would like to see that plan and would like for you if you could to share with this committee, if you don't agree with the investigative journalists report, I would like to see those numbers, numbers that you1635 guys are looking at and share them with this committee that has jurisdiction there so we can take a look in track if you will what the outcomes are because that's what's gonna need
to thank you. MR. Senator. Could we could we just hear back so that we can continue
[PORTER:] certainly and thank1657 you for the question if I could respond briefly. So of course we're happy to share that data, much of which is, is publicly available on massive data um with respect to the the perception of foot dragging with respect to electrification by by the program administrators. You know, what I can point to is that right now we are operating under the three year plan that was developed with stakeholder input submitted to the DPU supported by DOER the Attorney General's office and approved that plan in 19 and 20 the last two full years that have elapsed suggested that we would deliver roughly 5500 Heat pumps to roughly 5500 homes. Um that would be used to displace an existing heating source um actual data to date for those two years in 19 and 20. Um we have nearly doubled that target and we've delivered um 10,000 homes again, obviously the part the full displacement number is lower than that those still in line with the targets that were part of the plan. Um but the broader picture of what we kind of think paints, I hope presents evidence of something other than to put dragging. Um and rather on the contrary and aggressive commitment on the part of the program administrators under the under the structure of the plan that we operate under right now to drive this market to transform this market. More importantly, I'll just reiterate what the ea see what our stakeholder council saw last week. Um and what will be part of the final plan that is submitted again is a dramatic expansion of those efforts. Um and an effort that is in line with the greenhouse gas reduction targets ascribed to the programs by by the all right.
If we could have we could have somewhat shorter answers, answers, questions that would help us out. Mr Goldman.
[GOLDMAN:] Yeah, I just want to very quickly add that we are not waiting for the october plan to ramp up our efforts as it relates to heat pumps. If folks have driven down the mass pike recently, you will have seen very large billboards that support or that promote heat pumps. We are we are on we are we are rolling out marketing and1796 advertising and customer awareness and education campaigns as we speak. We hear that that called for action yesterday loud and clear and and we started even before yesterday. So that is that is ongoing.
Additional questions of Mr Porter. Mr Goldman.
[BARRETT:] I have a one or two myself and I want to, first1819 of all, I want to thank you both for appearing before the committee. I noticed in your answers today uh to Representative Roy into Senator Pacheco, that you made significant reference to uh the1834 executive branch to EEA. You made significant references to the energy efficiency advisory council and we appreciate both, but almost no references to your accountability to the Legislature as as you know, it was the Legislature not E. A. That required the secretary to set an emissions goal for the forthcoming three year plan. It was the Legislature not the EEA. That required that this next three year plan take into account for every initiative in every program, the social value of greenhouse gas emissions reduction. Uh It is the legislature not the executive branch that1875 now requires that E. A. C uh and enquiring and scrutinizing your quarterly reports, consider the social value of greenhouse gas reductions achieved. And it's the Legislature not EEA. Which requires that in fact, your quarterly reports themselves report on the social value of greenhouse gas emissions reductions achieved in your ongoing initiatives. Um you seem fixated on your relationship with the executive and its proper your mindful of it. You don't seem to truly be aware that both EEA itself and Mass save in particular is a creature of state law that was legislated. Do you do you think about as much?
1923 [PORTER:] Certainly. Um and, you know, it certainly didn't intend to create a perception to the contrary. Um and in fact, we recognize,1934 you know, starting with the Green Communities Act um ultimately through the Global Warming Solutions Act. And then most relevant to this discussion, the climate bill passed earlier this year, that has been the leadership of the Legislature that has put the frameworks and the and the legislative frameworks in place that have enabled the1953 success of these programs affected point, maybe to one specific example um of where that has had an impact already on the on the on the design of the programs. Um the inclusion of the social cost of carbon. Um and how we calculate cost effectiveness for measures and and and and programs um to date, we have not provided incentives to customers transitioning from a natural gas heating system to an air source heat pump because under the legacy methodology, that was not a cost effective measure to offer with the inclusion of the social cost of carbon um in our benefit cost analysis as a result of the Legislature's leadership on that issue and the inclusion of that in the Climate Act. Uh those measures are now cost effective under the program stations and for the first time, starting in the next plan, enhanced incentives will be in place for customers making that transition in the same way that they have been in place this term for customers transitioning from oil or problem.
Thank you very much. I want to give mr Goldman a chance if he wishes to expand on any of these answers.
[GOLDMAN:] The only thing I'd like to add is that we are very happy to continue to work with2034 you and the committee and provide information and make sure that that we are giving the committee everything they need from our end as well.2044
[BARRETT:] I have an additional question earlier this year. A marketing presentation by the natural gas division of Ever Source um surfaced. This was a presentation that was actually given to an audience of uh Ever Source Partners. The natural Gas Division of Ever Source had slides and I'm quoting from them that urged said that, quote, everyone needs to contact legislators in favor of continued use of natural gas as a residential and industrial commercial fuel. Another slide suggested that the industry should, and I'm quoting take advantage of power outage, fear that might come about from a proper or uh an appropriate or prompt transition away from natural gas. You're familiar with the slide deck. I can appreciate that other people from natural gas quickly stepped in to do damage control, disavowed your natural gas divisions, um exhortations to its customer base into its business partners? It seems to me that every source though is internally divided. Uh, I don't doubt that there are people in every source to appreciate that the natural gas division is out of line. But the natural gas division is a big chunk of every sources business. So, I'm assuming that there are a good many internal conflicts and that there is no resolution yet of these conflicts which bubbled up only four months ago. Mr Goldman, where are you in containing a huge natural gas division that disagrees quite clearly with some of the higher ups in the central office. How given this internal conflict are you going to realize the emissions reductions goals that we need and help residences and business move quite2168 decisively away from natural gas?
[GOLDMAN:] I guess. I would disagree slightly disagree with with a little bit of your premise because I don't think there is a conflict. I don't think that presentation was representative of the company as a whole and I think you've heard a lot of senior leaders from ever source come out and say that publicly. I think2190 what you're hearing today through our energy efficiency programs, we are really were bought in on electrification. We are all in, we are pushing these programs forward as hard as we can. I think that will be reflected in the next three year plan submission. And like I was mentioning earlier, we've already started, we are we are pushing education and marketing material to customers on the benefits of heat pumps and electrification. We're putting up2214 billboards, you're seeing it um kind of manifest itself already. So I think that presentation um uh again was not representative of our position and um you know, we're pushing forward as hard as we can on some of these other fronts on electrification
[BARRETT:] On July 28 Mr Goldman. Um and mr Porter, a consultant hired by the Energy efficiency advisory Council, gave an in depth report to the, on your new plan, the first iteration of it uh or the iteration of2254 a draft that and released in april of this year. The consultant for the Ec said flatly in its slide presentation, quote, the april draft plan, greenhouse gas reductions will not meet the state's targets. The consultant went on to say that your electric programs and these are the new ones proposed for the next three years anticipated 285,000 metric tons of greenhouse-gas reductions. Whereas the secretary uh complying with the new legislative mandate Called for you to achieve 504,000. The shortfall was 218,000 anticipate. Similarly, with respect to the gas programs, there was a significant shortfall. I can appreciate that. Under duress, you're now rushing to change those plans, but this is no longer. We're not talking about The current three years, we're talking about your own work effort in anticipation of 2022 : 2024. Given that you released2330 those plans in july and that the Climate Act had been signed in March and had become effective in june when I asked you why whether you think of us, What struck me2347 is your draft plan for the next three years, seemed oblivious of the fact that we have passed major new climate legislation imposing new responsibilities on mass safe specifically and requiring the Secretary to set sub limits for residential building and cooling and industrial commercial building and cooling. Why this uh seeming disconnect between the reality of2375 the rule of law and the design of your mass save initiatives for the next three years. She
[PORTER:] Yeah, thank you for the question, senator. Um you know, I think there is largely a timing issue here. So the slides that you shared, you know, which are accurate um were in reaction to an initial draft plan that was2400 submitted by the program administrators in april um you know, in advance of, you know, more explicit direction and targets by all of our stakeholders, including including EEA and so, you know, I think that the demonstration of progress in that plan, frankly, is a demonstration of the2425 of the process working explicitly under the Green Communities Act. The PSR charged with submitting an initial draft plan early enough in the process such that2436 stakeholders have the opportunity to weigh in.
[BARRETT:] But the bill was signed in March. Your your draft emerged a full 30 days later. You don't seem to regard the Legislature as a a power even superior to your stakeholders. Uh We write the laws, It was in place before you released your first iteration of the 2022 2024 plan. I'm not browbeating you you truly seemed unaware of the importance of state law.
[PORTER:] I regret that that Is the impression that we've created. It's certainly not it's certainly not the case. Um you know, I hope that you and everyone on the call can appreciate. Um the scale at which these programs operate. You know, nearly a $3 billion dollar programme under the under the current term? Um you know, the draft that we have submitted for the next three years will bring this to a $4 billion while a month, I'm sure seems like a long time um in the context of um developing a draft of sufficient depth and quality to be a useful data point for the legislature or stakeholders for the executive branch to react to um takes time. Um And so again, I believe that what the council will tell you what, I hope that you'll2540 hear from other stakeholders um and that you'll see in october is that, you know, we have listened to that feedback from everyone including the Legislature and the again, the updated numbers that we provided last week and ultimately the numbers that will be incorporated the plan will represent a full reflection of our understanding and embrace of our obligations with respect to the will of the Legislature.2567
Thank you Mr Porter. I appreciate that. Mr Goldman, do you have anything to say? No, I don't have anything to add to that. Thank you.
[BARRETT:] Okay, just I'm going to let this go.2577 But I would point out to you that the bill signing occurred in March, the bill's passage had occurred months earlier. So you guys had lots of notice and that you did not seem to be interested in what we were2592 doing as a legislature. So in any event, are there additional questions of Mr Porter and mr Goldman? Uh hearing none. We will proceed on. We want to thank both of you. Good luck in your work. I hope you have influence within your respective organizations. I'm not sure you do, but I hope you have influence within your respective organizations and can bring your personal commitment, which I don't doubt2616 to bear on your organization's commitments concerning which I have many doubts. Thank you for testifying today.
Um We're going to hear a testimony with regard to S2226 And as 3365. An act providing for building justice with jobs. And uh if I want to, I want to recognize Senator Pacheco among before we get to a very long list of listed witnesses here because this is Senator Pacheco's bill if I'm not mistaken and uh if he wanted to make a a brief opening statement, that would set the stage for all the people, many, many, many people people to follow on this bill. We would love to hear from him at this time.
[PACHECO:] [SB2226] [HB3365] Thank you very very much Mr Chairman through2669 you and uh Chairman Roy and all the members of the committee. Thank you2675 for taking me out of turn today.2679 I'm reaching out to testify in favor of an act providing for building justice with jobs Senate 2226 in house 3365. An act providing for building justice for jobs with established residential retrofitting plan To electrify and provide energy efficiency upgrades for a total of one million Holmes Over the next 10 years here in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. This critical legislation is designed to curb residential emissions by codifying the administration's stated goal of retrofitting one million homes over the next 10 years. As outlined in the administration's 2050 decarbonization plan, the adoption of ambitious residential emission reduction policy has become an increasingly critical need as our ongoing climate emergency has continued to become more urgent. An apparent here in the commonwealth and throughout our world. Moreover, the need for substantive policies capable of guiding our state's overall emissions reduction effort has become all the more indispensable.
Following the Legislature's updated emissions reduction requirements of reducing emissions 50 Below the 1990 levels by 2030-75, below 1990 levels by 2040 and net zero emissions by 2050. A statewide emissions crisis is serious, is a serious crisis in and of itself, according to the most2780 recent Asthma capitals annual report, 2021, from the asthma and Allergy Foundation of America, which lists the top 100 worst cities to live with asthma Massachusetts, unfortunately has more cities in the top 20 than any other state in America. Any other state in America, mr Chairman and as always disenfranchised communities with higher proportions of low income ethnic minority populations have been bearing the brunt of this crisis. These populations have similarly endured more significant economic hardship brought on by COVID-19 the COVID-19 crisis compared to other communities in our state. Meanwhile, existing retrofit efforts here in2833 the commonwealth are woefully inadequate and have yet to yield substantial progress. According to the research in article in the boston globe, We were just talking about a few minutes ago, only 461 homes were converted to electric e. Last year.
This past july massive program administrators announced their three year plan or to address their clearing gap by Installing 17,000 heat pumps um a year Before raising to 27,000 per year in year three with roughly half of those existing systems still supplementing fossil fuel heat essays plan to merely add modern thermostats and additional installation is sealing uh in many residences would fail to treat Over 50% of the emissions from each of its residents addressed under this grossly inadequate strategy. The commonwealth projected emissions reductions would virtually flat line Over that three year period despite definitive legislative action and administrative ambition to reduce emissions. This unfortunately, uh, this is not the type of progress that we need and we need to really get going retrofitting uh and uh move us forward in aggressive way. It is in no small part the product of a retrofitting program financed by entities and run by administrators with fundamental conflicts due to the financial interests of the publicly traded corporations they represent.
More generally though, it is the product of a statewide retrofitting effort in the absence of adequate accountable leadership and it is a serious problem. The act providing for building justice with jobs would address these problems by addressing the building justices with jobs Task force Despatching its members with responsibility and designing a strategy to retrofit one million homes over 10 years. Uh This task force will be comprised2976 of appointees representing a diverse array of advocacy community members, some of which you will hear from. Uh, you know today, in terms of the strategy and the subject matter experts, the task force would also have a crucial ally in developing new wants to uh financial strategy is needed to support the achievement of its overall retrofitting goal massachusetts Clean Energy Center. The legislation would give mass ce see the authority to establish a Green bank for a green financing tool or institute a energy savings contract tools in a matter similar to the Department of Energy's esco program.
Under these longstanding contracts, the resources for energy efficiency are retrofitting work on residential property could be secured through long term financing that leverages the properties anticipated energy savings. The federal government is another critical allies supporting building justice. This with jobs Task force in its central mission legislation authorized building justice for jobs Task force and the mass see Ec to maximize the acquisition and capitalization, the federal re sponsored resources. The bill's language is intentionally agnostic as to the form of federal3067 support the american rescue plan. The building back better plan, the ongoing federal budget reconciliation process that is being discussed as we speak, would all qualify as potential sources as would any future federal earmarks for electrification, residential retrofitting or energy efficiency updates almost through.
Mr. Chairman, federal and state leaders including the massachusetts congressional delegation are important allies align with the building justice with jobs plan at the federal level. The Building Justice with jobs plan in part part of the thrive agenda led by U. S. Senator Ed Markey, an association with the new England renews Alliance. The Building Justice with jobs plan is also part of a regional office among other state governments in our region of the country. This is a coordinated approach with the renew new England Alliance, an entity that has pulled together critical stakeholders and support for legislation across several critical neighboring jurisdictions. In conclusion, this is a critical piece of legislation designed to tackle3149 a significant portion of our statewide greenhouse gas emissions by retrofitting residential homes.
This coordinated effort3157 would also prioritize energy efficiency upgrades, job creation in environmental justice communities and it is designed to leverage federal and state financial resources in order to maximize the impact of available funding. I am in favour of the passage of this piece of legislation and I would be pleased to answer any questions of the, of the committee uh now may not be the appropriate time. I know you have a busy agenda and so many people that have come together to speak on this piece of legislation. I think it's critical especially in light of3195 the conversation we had prior to the beginning of this testimony that we start to look at a more aggressive way of of implementing the energy efficiency that we know makes the most sense bringing down the demand for energy in the first place. Thank you very much. Mr Chairman and I know that there are so many people involved here uh uh that have been put
senator, I appreciate it very much. Are there questions of Senator Pacheco?
We want to thank you for3234 bringing this legislation to our attention senator before we move on uh to the many witnesses signed up. I want to
recognize to people I I overlooked earlier one is Paul Dale. Uh and before I get to paul who is now prepared to testify,
I want to recognize even earlier, mr steve cowl who is with energy for the future because he has comments3266 on mass saved the subject matter3269 that we just covered with witnesses from the utilities is mr cowl here and is prepared to testify on that subject of mass save and and massive governance. I am here. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay, good.
[STEVE COWELL (ENERGY FOR THE FUTURE):] Ok, very quickly. First I want to really just say I've got tremendous uh commending and respect and appreciation for the fantastic work that Senator barrett you and the T We committee did on pulling the road map together.3303 It is the most aggressive and best pieces of legislation in the country. So that's where I'm starting from. E for the future. We used to be called Conservation Services Group And we ran uh mass save residential work here and we did it in 26 states and were responsible for 3.5 million homes being retrofitted. We changed our name and we basically sold our assets to get more resources to help move3329 this agenda to assist all of the great people who are trying to really make this work. Um I just want to say that, you know, the road map did has achieved a significant change. Which is that the um it took a while for it's not easy to come up with a whole new plan in a matter of weeks. So, I do appreciate the time and effort it took for the ps to sit back and say, okay, now what do we do? How do we change this? How do we put the numbers together? What they came up with was is I think a great Improvement. They went from 2.9 billion to 4.1 billion. 39% increase in costs and 70% increase in benefits. Okay, that's good. Is it going to solve all of our problems? No, we have to keep moving and keep working. Um, and some of the legislation has been talked about today, you know, um, around the road map and uh, you know, enhanced codes is very good and I support it. But I think at3392 the same time if we added a new bureaucratic or administrative structure on top of the existing one, which is very extensive between E A C D. O er DPU. And just to be clear that the utilities, the PS were working under the requirements of the new Green Communities act to be cost effective and the analysis of cost effectiveness. We've done it. We've worked very hard at this all over the country. Um, and, and the administrative, the PFAS were using a cost of3428 carbon social cost of carbon $135, which is higher than any other state. Right? But it's not enough to really get cost effectiveness. A customer switching from natural gas to a heat pump is not cost effective for the customer or for the economy given the current uh, cost of carbon, we have to step back and use the road map to re think and re analyze how we use the cost of carbon and how do we explain to customers you're doing this for the environment. You're going to end up paying more3464 for your energy. But it's important for the, the community to do that. So that is my concern. I think we need to work with the existing structure. We need to continue to let that structure work with the A. C. Et cetera and all the, and we have to work with the DPU and this concept of cost effectiveness balanced against and with the road map. Um, so I think that's critical to do. We are working hard on a project. Um, heat pumps because when we ran mass save that the doctors, many splits getting put in. We were getting tons of consumer complaints and anger that it wasn't working. One room was hot. One room was called. There are 8000 approved,
Uh, heat pumps in Massachusetts to consider. So, how do you decide which of the 8000 options should go into Witch house. This is not a check the box. Easy. It takes time. We are working with mass EEC nicer to D O. E. And we're working with the P. A. S to try to really make sure we know how to do this, right? So that customers, um, and we're doing a major study, uh, to do this. We really have to get it right, but we do have to get it right. Let me let me ask. I appreciate your trying to say that. It's difficult. You're trying to get it right. And I do have a question or two, but I want to, I want to invite other committee members, first of all to ask3556 questions of you.
Here's a question. I have, um,
29%,
of the buildings in Massachusetts don't currently use3572 cheap, uh, unnaturally cheap, below market priced track natural gas.3580 You're referencing the need for3583 carbon pricing to bring the cost of natural gas up to a level that reflects all the external effects and damage that it does. Let's leave that aside for a moment, 29% of Massachusetts, buildings don't use natural gas. They use more polluting and more expensive oil heat. I'm not suggesting that every one of those buildings would meet a cost effectiveness test for transitioning the heat pumps, but many would. So why hasn't mass saved long before now explicitly targeted
homes and businesses heating with more polluting and more expensive oil. And why haven't we made much more progress and, uh, heat substitution there. Okay, very good question. And you are absolutely correct that oil and propane customers, it is cost effective to switch. One of the challenges has been how to switch. How quickly is the equipment that's being put incapable of really fully replacing that existing, uh, fossil fuel system? And that was unclear. We had to do more research early on this is again, I, five years ago, The, the equipment, alternative equipment was going to3670 be difficult to ensure that the comfort level could be achieved? We've gotten there. We have, we've worked hard. We've gotten there. And the proposal from the ph is to aggressively switch many, if not all propane and all customers to heat pumps and it can be done. That's the priority. And it should also be included with weatherization because you got to3694 weatherize the house to decrease the the impact of wind and cold, very cold temperatures, making that house very hard to use a heat pump. So there is, in fact, if I could ask a follow up question back to the question of the house is the roughly 70% of it's a little less than that. The 60% of Massachusetts buildings heated with natural gas. How much work have you done to begin to treat those3726 conversions the way we treat the upgrades that are needed to uh
sewerage systems to where3736 you are, where you have a state mandate that at the time of sale home must put in a a new uh system to make sure I'm not talking about systems on the M. W. R. A. But I'm talking about systems uh, that
empty refuge into the yard. Uh there3760 there's a mandate at the time of sale that the sewage system, the home system be up to state grade. Have you explored the possibility of a similar Requireed at the time of sale that a home meet a certain energy standard and emissions reduction standard so that it could then be financed over 20 or 30 years effectively when the property changes hands. That's a good question and that is important. We've supported and worked with um, you know, the home energy score. Um, and with actually Pearl certification, which is a national, uh, product to help people quantify and communicate the efficiency of not just energy efficiency, but also renewable energy. Uh, and we funded them to do some initial work here in massachusetts. Um, we need to do that. I completely3817 agree with you that we3819 need to be able to educate. And that's what3821 some of the legislation That's being proposed, which is what 22, Uh,
say 33 66 and um,3831 33 20 including that. Education is critical, but we have to make sure it works and we have to make sure that it's communicated correctly. It's been a challenge. We've tried to introduce this legislatively Over 10 or 12 years and3850 try to introduce what the legend around a home energy score mandating a home energy score at time of sale. So you would, you would urge us to take that question up again. Um, we've gotten, has not been approved and there's been, and some of the proposed legislation basically does that, you know, the, the, uh, let's see the, I think 33 66 um, does that. And so i it does it a little bit different way. But this is a good way, in a sense. I think I would support that. I think that that education of the consumer on their energy use, uh, it has run into opposition from the real estate industry who see it as a complicating additional requirement that is difficult to facilitate the sale so that those are the difficult challenges we have to, we have to balance. Does that help? Uh, it does. I'm thinking specifically about the so called title five requirement that occurs when, when, when the house changes hands and
uh, energy, Right? That's, that's sewage. Right? Here's the point. We it's a major investment required at the point of sale and we enable that significant cost to be imposed by, um, having it enter into the purchase price and become part of the price bargain between buyer and seller. Couldn't We don't, we have to anticipate. I'm talking about your comments earlier, you said that cost effectiveness calculations for natural gas mean that the homeowner will never, over the course of years and reduced monthly bills, completely amortized the cost of switching over from natural gas, two heat pumps. So, um, what is a financing mechanism that would enable the homeowner to Absorbed as much of that cost and extended over time? So that he and she doesn't have to come up with $40,000 at the outset and make a one time all expenditure. That's what I'm groping toward here. And then that is a both a very good growth because it is difficult because the, our analysis, we've actually done this state nationally with, in multiple states to see the difference between natural gas and heat pump. Economics, we need to increase incentives. Number one. Number two is, um, it is very difficult to, uh, to get the economics for the consumer to put the money in for the heat pump, get rid of the gas and actually lower their bills. But we have to be honest4018 with people and say, look, this may increase your bill unless we can change the cost of natural gas or modify the cost of electricity. And there was a proposal earlier of the idea of a electrification rate someone so steve, I'm going to let this go. But here's what I invite you to think about. I'm talking about septic systems for home. Uh, the septic system often involves a 20 or $30,000 investment. It has to be made if the current septic4052 system isn't up to the latest state standard at the time of the exchange of ownership. And that's significant investment required of the new owner is advertised effectively because it's made part of the purchase and sale of a property. That's the way we've chosen to handle in the storage area. The important upgrading of home septic systems that aren't on sewer systems. So I was just grappling for a similar 20 or 30 year financing approach to enable homeowners to transition to heat pumps in instances where they can't rely on a reduced monthly bill as a means of advertising the significant cost, but we don't have to pursue it right now. You're good to, I know it's a little outside your thank you for testifying. I'll take that into consideration. Get my team working on it. That's an interesting idea. Well, thank you, thank you for testifying. Uh, very much. We're going to move to paul dale here before returning to a long4115 list of witnesses who wish to testify on Senator Pacheco's bill. Um, mr dale, do you wish to testify at this time? I do senator and I appreciate the opportunity and I actually appreciate the delay because I actually intend to speak to Senator4131 Pacheco's bill, among others And we're really going to hold everyone to do that. I am Paul Bill Energy Committee Chair for the Massachusetts Sierra Club. So on behalf of our 100,0004143 members, I'm here to speak in support of providing the act, providing building justice with jobs and act relative to better buildings. An act to improve outdoor lighting, conserve energy and increased dark sky visibility. Um, we face an intersecting crisis of climate change, economic inequality, racial inequality. President biden has created a build back better agenda. Our current incentives for EVs and for rooftop solar have mostly benefited well off residents with the wealth or property to take advantage of them, those who can buy new cars, those that own a suitable rooftop. The commonwealth understands the need to address the building sector now and by implementing the build back better agenda. It's one important step in this. Uh, we must target and largely dedicated our efforts that are less well off residents who suffer first and most4195 from pollution and climate crisis impacts. So the act providing building justice with jobs is an important framework to do that. While other bills such as an act relative to better buildings details some of the technical mechanisms that are required for implementation. The challenge here is to ensure that there is adequate stable funding for these efforts. So harkening back to what you said earlier to the mass save people. We cannot and we must not assume that the State administration will direct adequate funding to support something like the building justice with jobs plan. There is a public analogy with the COVID-19 pandemic. If we had only taken control of the virus when we first seen it, we could have avoided the disastrous health impacts. We are well beyond that, as we all know with the climate crisis, the legislature and here I am calling upon you and recognizing the power and the importance of the Legislature Must set up the funding mechanisms that are going to be needed for these bills to succeed. And thankfully, we do expect money will be coming from the federal government over the next 10 years. So we must direct a substantial amount of that funding towards these efforts. And before that, before the federal money arrives, we must be ready to receive it. The Legislature should immediately at least provide the stable and adequate funding needed for pilot projects to succeed. So we need to fund job training programs and job training offerings. We need to provide the funds sufficient to create confidence that stable jobs will follow the training for those who take the training and we must fund programs that do provide poll home electrification retrofits4302 with health and safety repairs and anti displacement strategies at no cost to the residents. So that addresses the question of how are we going to encourage people on different heating sources? We have to provide the incentives. Um These bills are our chance to build back better by taking the required climate action. Thank you Mr. Thank you very much and appreciate any questions or comments you might have. Are there questions of Mr down?
Uh We have many witnesses on this topic. All I'll say is no cost to4337 the homeowner? That's uh I can't I can't wait to hear what financing source is going to be available to pay for that. Um But thank you very much Mr dale. Um Let's them, let's continue on with a panel that consist of Lee Matsueda, reverend Michel, Walsh Ryan Doherty Roxanne Rivera representing
organized labor S. E. I. U. And the building trades in particular. Um why don't we uh I think you want to testify. Do you not on the building justice with jobs bill? That's right. Yeah, thank you. Chair Barrett Chair Roy and members of the joint committee for the opportunity and for your leadership. My name is Lee Matsueda, I'm the executive director at Community Labor United and I am testifying in support of S 20 to 26 H 33 65 an act providing building justice with jobs um C. L. U. We bring together grassroots organizations and labour unions to stabilize and strengthen working class families right? And communities of color in greater boston and beyond where a proud member of the massachusetts renews alliance uh and appreciate the opportunity on this panel. Um so you also convenes a group called the Green Justice Coalition, which is made up of community based and environmental justice organizing and advocacy groups. And together we represent thousands of different massachusetts residents um as a little background since 2000 and seven, we worked on energy efficiency issues in the commonwealth with the aim of securing a triple bottom line. Our work with utility companies, the administration, legislators, labour unions, environmental organizations, organizations and others resulted in home weatherization programming for working class communities of color. It dramatically improved wages and job standards for weatherization workers and it kept tens of thousands of tons of greenhouse gases out of the air. So we4453 continue this work today. Um we're now have efforts obviously tied to the EA 63-year plan which has been discussed already. We're working to obviously now implement Burdeau to point out here in boston and uh we're also excited about a pilot that's building community and microgrids and Chelsea and chinatown um Now as as you all well know and we've heard a little bit about already were living in some really extremely challenging and distressing times that are continuing to expose4481 the systemic racial, environmental and economic inequities faced by people of color, by people from low income communities, immigrants and the working class. Um, there is hope however, we've made progress with the road map bill as others have mentioned.4495 And on the horizon we see the potential for federal resources for infrastructure and for jobs um, as a part of our path forward and to confront the triple threat we're up against, have to commit to creating safe and healthy housing and jobs. Uh, this is why cumulative United supports as 20 to 26 age 33 65 this act seeks clear action to retrofit a million homes. It would put us on a path to reaching our state's goals and creating healthier housing and4523 families. It would put thousands of people to work and it can be done in a way that benefits and protects those most in need and those that have been left out of our progress today. So you'll hear from others in our alliance, including unions on the panel, a panel on environmental justice and a panel with other experts. I know you feel the urgency to take action is a great opportunity for massachusetts to continue to be a leader on climate policy. So I ask that you please report this bill out of your committee favorably and swiftly, thank you so much. Thank you. Lee will hear from all members of your panel of Syriana before entertaining questions. Thank you.
Good morning Chairman Barrett and chairman Roy and fellow committee members. Thank you for the opportunity4571 to testify today on age 33 65 S 20 to 26. The building Justice with jobs bill, my name is the reverend dr4580 Michelle Walsh and I'm a member of the S E I U five oh nine. We are part of the mass renews alliance S E I U five oh nine represents about 20,000 state workers, social service workers, family childcare providers and non tenured faculty in massachusetts. Climate change makes human survival more and more difficult. This falls hardest on those without power in our society. Working people don't4607 have the extra income to rebuild our homes after storms to move to higher and cooler locations or to electrify and insulate our Holmes This year, massachusetts passed an important climate bill. It tells us what massachusetts must do to address the climate crisis. Now we need to find the common sense and the moral will to do so the building justice with4631 jobs bill is one place to begin. Not only will it make our homes more energy efficient and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. It also will do it in a way that working people can afford and it will lower utility bills for those whose homes get retrofitted. Not only does it create many jobs, it also calls for strong labor standards. So the jobs will be good jobs, the kind where you only have to work one job to pay the bills most crucially as a moral issue. It prioritize Holmes in environmental justice communities, providing relief to those who need it the most as those who are participating in this panel and beyond will continue to testify today. Let's move from planning to action as the4675 Rocky Mountain Institute testified powerfully earlier today, massachusetts has an opportunity to become a leader and all add from my perspective, a moral leader among the states in this area. We urge the committee to recommend the passage of the building justice with jobs bill age4692 33 65 s 20 to 26. Thank you. We will be4697 submitting this as written testimony and I'd like to pass it on now to brian Doherty from the boston building traits.
You're muted
Mr Doherty You're you're not audible at the present time. Thanks so much cheer. Barrett, can you hear me now? Yes, awesome, thank you and thank you for the handoff. Good afternoon everyone I'd like to say thank you to chair Barrett. Chair Roy members of the committee. My name is4735 brian Doherty and I work at the greater boston building trades unions, An organization of organized labor that represents 35,000 working families in the Metropolitan Boston region, the building trades unions, advanced social and economic justice, providing family supporting wages, health care benefits and dignified retirement benefits to families and to workers and families in the construction industry. We do that as an umbrella group of 20 local construction unions with 3300 Union construction company partners, the highest standard for responsible businesses in the state of Massachusetts. We do this through collective bargaining when workers have the chance to to advocate for fair training, safety and economic uh, safety throughout their entire careers. We're here today in coalition with the Green Justice Coalition and mass renews and we are proud to be part of this coalition with labour, with community, with environmental justice advocates and I enjoyed great partnership with elected officials, taking a lead here and prioritizing this effort, We strongly support the building justice with jobs bills, uh, this work will create a plan, this work will create a fair and equitable and cleaner future. Every job in massachusetts we know should be a good job, one in which every worker has a right to be part of a4802 collective bargaining conversation. And that's why we think that whether you're building4805 or operating anything in massachusetts, you should have those rights, collective bargaining rights of the best and most efficient way to bring all parties at the same table. Two figure out solutions that work for everyone, whether it's workers rights on the job or in our4816 community or environmental justice. This is the place to have that conversation. Um, there is a history that this, that the most, that as a standard of the highest responsible business practices are through collective bargaining agreements in bills like the building justice with jobs is a vehicle that will allow us to have this conversation. Um, and that's why we're here today in full support. Uh, this will bring all voices to the table4839 and we're proud to be part4840 of it. Thanks so much. Chair and committee members. Um and I will hand it off to our to to also continue our panel. Thanks so much.
Thank you.
Mhm Hello to you committee. My name is our Hamadou. Today. I'm 17 years old and today I'm calling in from non keg land better known to you. A Salem massachusetts in the point neighborhood in support of H 3365. An act providing for building justice with jobs. I'm also policy lead for the massachusetts, Youth for Climate Coalition and the4873 massachusetts for Climate justice, formerly known as boston Climate Strike and field adviser for our climate. I would like to remind4880 this committee the meaning of the word justice and what it implies. And that is that in some context. Historically there has been wrongdoing towards environmental justice, locations and populations. An unfair approach to how we talk about fighting against the climate crisis is the lack of equity extended extended to those disproportionately harms this bill succeeds in the intersectionality demanded to address the climate crisis rightfully as a black low income immigrant, above all else, what I want is safety in the United States. My4909 safety is threatened at all times threatened you to my identities and ways I hold space and I'd like for this committee to understand that to me and many others, safety is fundamental to the justice. We are long overdue. That is what this bill provides. Safety contrary to popular belief. Safety for environmental justice communities is not the introduction to Moore policing, but rather primarily the security of basic needs such as green housing and jobs that supports a4936 less environmentally racist society. This bill allows for an increase in employment accessibility quantity and refines the air quality and lower in class of which are primarily of color communities.4946 What this bill does to you Committee is the4949 heart of justice acknowledging the generational panes that have occurred in doing all that we as a society can in the present to undo such damages. I urge you to take it upon yourself and think of this country and in particular the state of massachusetts. The indigenous land it occupies in the black and brown low income people has exploited and how this bill will work to mend the scales of injustice that taints this country in states legacy and use all that to drive your ultimate decision. Thank you and now I will pass to call and clicking from the disability policy consortium.
Hello. Um, can you, can you, can everyone hear me okay? Thank you so much. Members of the committee um uh, honourable chair is for your time. I am executive director of the disability policy consortium, their statewide civil rights advocacy organization run by and for people with disabilities. It may seem surprisingly5004 to get disability rights organization testifying about an environmental bill, but it really ought not to be because our community is often in the crosshairs in times of environmental crisis, as we've seen in disasters like hurricanes to people with disabilities who are often left behind to die when evacuation measures don't take them into account when temperatures rise. People with medical conditions that leave them less able to regulate heat will increasingly suffer. Um and above all, people with disabilities in our state do not have reliable access to affordable, accessible integrated housing um which is critical both to alleviating uh paintings of homelessness and to ensuring sustainable communities. That's why I'm particularly excited that5051 this bill is justice with jobs legislation directly addresses this problem and5056 the severe inaccessibility of housing In Massachusetts for people with disabilities in part uh specifically by5065 looking at conversion of buildings5067 right, if we're going to sustainably increase the supply of housing in the state, we will need to turn mills and factories and department stores that have been shut5077 down into housing, but under present state law, when those buildings are converted, even if they're torn down to the bare studs, 95% of those units can remain completely inaccessible to people with disabilities. This legislation would close that loophole would put measures in place to ensure that that housing is made accessible to people5098 with disabilities can age in place. Um and it puts people with disabilities onto the communities formed to5105 ensure that this critical state response uh, to our climate crisis represents the needs of people with disabilities. Thank you very much uh, for your time and please support this legislation. Thank you sir.
Is there is there a transition here to an additional speaker or should I call on a witness? I believe that is a notes terrain.
Mhm Hi um I'm Tungsha and I'm a representative from Sunrise. Worcester um,
Mom Worcester is an extremely environmental justice city by the statewide map. 82.5% of Worcester lives in environmental justice area and common to a lot of cities across the country. We see um a similar um inequality across the city where certain areas of the city have much higher asthma, diesel particulate matter and rates and fewer street trees and in order to address these problems, Building electrification is necessary. We live in a um in these areas we have a lot of refugees, a lot of people who5185 are minority, low income in non english speaking. Um the higher temperatures are caused in part by inefficient appliances and emissions and of course the pollution from gas leaks. This job would based would uh this bill would allow people to work to gain economic employment and address the economic justice at the same time, it would also allow us to address these sorts of disparities where the temperature of5216 the city during a heat wave In the in certain areas in these environmental justice areas is 15°F hotter than areas just two miles aware way this is common in cities but I'm familiar with Worcester We need to address these inequities and this bill would do that. Thank you.
Thank you. Uh can we hear from another witness5243 on this topic? I think. Yes. Good morning. Yes, thank you. Good morning Chairman barrett Chairman Roy and members of the T. We committee. My name is judy diamond stone. I'm a member of neighbor to neighbor and renewable energy. Worcester we are coalition members of mass renews alliance. I'm also the chair of the Worcester branch of the N. A. C. P. Climate justice committee. I am speaking today in support of building justice with jobs House 3365 and Senate 2226. Worcester is the epicenter of triple deckers built in the 19th century. Many of these multi family rental properties are now in district disrepair, poorly insulated rife with toxins, mold vermin health disparities map onto5300 sections of the city with old and rehabilitated housing where the majority of renters are black brown and members of our immigrant communities. Buildings are also the largest single source of greenhouse gas emissions in Worcester
the climate Justice committee embarked on a project to address racial disparities in the built environment targeting the Holmes most in need of upgrades while preserving affordability and connecting those in our community most in need of jobs to the jobs that would5334 be created. We came smack against the programmatic and political realities of affordable housing development, piecemeal programs, inadequate funding streams, entrenched interests in housing as an investment opportunity, not as a critical need for the healthy stable community we deserve. That is why we are thrilled to support building justice with jobs a connect the dots approach to retrofitting rental housing with protections for renters, protections for workers and an eye to developing new sources of funding for this important work. Thank you so much for having me for hearing me for your time this morning and I will submit this testimony as written testimony as well. Thank you very much.
Uh
we can hear from the next witness uh if you are teed up I think jean Luc Peake a maybe I just wanted to make sure that nella medina who is also on the list for the Jvs imparted if they're not here then then I can definitely go ahead
nellie are you with us and nearly had the flu. I'm sorry I thought that she had reported that we hope she feels better soon. Why don't we hear from you, jean Luc. Okay, thank you to the joint committee. I am jean Luc Barrett President of the North American indian center of boston. Niqab is a
member of the mass renews alliance and a member of the massachusetts E. J. Table. I speak in favour of 20 to 26 H uh 33 65. Uh This bill is important to indigenous peoples because when we divest from extractive economies that exacerbate carbon emissions, we must invest in impacted black indigenous and people of color. Frontline communities. We must emphasis that building job justice with jobs task force appointments5461 must be made in consultation with tribal government massachusetts Commission on indian affairs and the North American indian center of boston Building justice with jobs plans includes a detailed comprehensive program for how to train new workers in order to eliminate the labor shortages in the relevant professions as quickly as possible. Further, the plan will identify sources of funding including but not limited to federal funding, which is relevant to residents who are members of federally recognized tribes and financial savings from increased energy efficiency. Niqab through our employment and training department participates in the massachusetts one stop career center network regarding project labor agreements.5503 Niqab expects to consult on the use of apprenticeship and5507 pre apprenticeship programs on housing emissions renovations. We further expect to consult on goals or requirements to promote workforce diversity for housing additions renovations. Niqab looks forward to working together towards the active participation of black indigenous and people of color communities. This critical environmental justice initiative, I'm going to hand it off to our expert panel now, starting with lisa Cunningham architect.
Hi, can everybody hear me? Great, thank you. Good morning, thank you for the opportunity to testify and to chair barrett in the committee and Senator Pacheco for sponsoring an act providing for building justice with jobs. My name is lisa Cunningham. I'm a town meeting members from Brookline where we have been trying to advance building electrification legislation in order to meet our climate goals. I'm also part of an active group working with a number of municipal and climate leaders throughout Massachusetts to advance building electrification, which is so urgently needed to address our climate crisis as well as an architect whose practice has been5575 based in Brookline for the past 30 years. This legislation is designed to create jobs and generate savings in the very environmental justice communities that need it the most including cities like Worcester and sale in which we have been working closely with the effects of our climate crisis are born disproportionately by are most at risk population, including minorities, the poor and the elderly, making our buildings healthy and affordable to heat and cool results in immediate and demonstrable, improved health outcomes as well as advancing our climate goals. Buildings are the second largest source of greenhouse gas emissions in the state and they are actually responsible for majority of emissions in our urban areas. Both the state of Massachusetts and the federal government have set a goal of reducing our carbon emissions by 50% in the next eight years. That's by 2030. This goal is a political goal, but not as a scientifically sufficient goal. According to the international panel on climate change. As An international panel on climate change is 65% reduction By 2030 will give us only a 67% chance of staying within the 1.5°Cade
warming, which scientists have agreed is critical in order to avoid the most catastrophic effects of climate change. So we are not even on track to meet these insufficient targets. We cannot afford to perpetuate the disconnect between the state's well established need for robust retrofitting efforts and the less ambitious goals we've seen put forth by the mass a program administrators and yes, as we've heard today and I can attest to as a practicing architect, national grid and ever source, continue to incentivize installing gas systems promoting an energy source that we know is as dirty as coal, as well as installing systems that we actually need to be ripping out. This legislation proactively incorporates input from the mass ec, but a voice pinning the plan for retrofitting decision making on massive which would be involved in the process by being allowed to bid in but would no5692 longer be the sole arbiter for the commonwealth retrofitting efforts Again, as we have already heard, massive, lacks the capacity to ramp up and successfully complete one million retrofits in 10 years or in eight years. Let me say this bill gives the state direct ownership of this urgently needed work critically. This legislation also gives Masisi the authority to establish programs and entities designed to provide funding for the building justice with jobs plan including, but not limited to a green bank to provide capital investments and a program designed to use financial savings derived from increased energy.
IRS I urge the committee to support and advance this legislation. Thank you for your time.
Thank you. Thank you very much for your time. I do. I would like because this is the, the expert panel and because I know you lisa have experience in this area. I want to pause here and ask whether the committee has questions of uh, of using since you and your fellow expert panelists serve as a resource. I know to all the groups involved here. Is there5764 a question of Miss Cunningham?
Yeah. You know, I have one quick one of, I I'm looking at some of the details of the bill that were now covering. And even outside environmental justice populations. I think some language here provides the Department of housing, community Development would finance and energy on it and then housing emissions renovation, uh, up to half the cost of the renovation. This5797 would be for presumably at every town in mass, every house in massachusetts. Right. Even outside e. J. P s and after a 10 year zero interest loan sufficient to fund the remaining half of the renovations. I don't know what percent of the entire housing stock would be encompassed by these mandates, but it would seem to be considerable.
That's a, that is presumably a huge amount of money. What what is the5827 financing plan here? Since we can't really just finance this in the hopes that there will be an infrastructure bill coming out of Congress or a budget reconciliation act. You're really anticipating that this continued for years. So, so where5842 help us think about where the money would come from? Well, I think the state, I've got to say I'm not an expert in this particular question. So I would differ to some other people who might be able to answer this question a little bit better than I can, but I will say that this is something that the state really needs to come up with a plan for financing. Um, so that's uh, that's something we run across, uh, roadblocks in our work with Worcester that there is not sufficient state financing. And, and so obviously there are, there will, will be some money coming in from5876 Arba, but um, and the idea of um, coming of providing a green bank is also a great idea, but um, I maybe hank keating or Sarah dueling can uh, provide other answers to this question. Fair enough, thank you lisa, I appreciate it. You're going to hand out thank you to other witnesses perhaps on this expert panel. Um, sure I'll hand it over to Sarah dueling.
Great, thank you lisa. Can you all hear me? Yes, yes. Fabulous. Wonderful. It's lovely to be here this afternoon. Thanks for the opportunity to provide comments today. My name is Sarah dueling and I'm the executive director of the massachusetts Climate action Network. And can we empower and mobilize our advocates to realize local clean energy solutions and coordinate local leaders to support state efforts to accelerate, which we've heard a lot about today and equitable clean energy transition. I'm speaking this afternoon to encourage the T. We committee members to support equitable decarbonization of our building stock in massachusetts by supporting S 2226 H 3365. The bill we've been talking about thus far And I want to emphasize that I have been listening to communities across the state from the more than 65 chapters share with me that retrofitting their aging, leaking housing stock is a top priority for their health, for their finances and also for reducing harmful emissions that worsen the climate crisis. I've heard from folks in Falmouth and over Lawrence Chelmsford Worcester and towns as well in Western Mass that have been saying that they need to upgrade their existing housing stock. So it is affordable to heat and cool that their, their homes are all electric without any fossil fuel powered alliance appliances that had, that will ensure healthy indoor air quality and allow these communities to say that their buildings are there core climate mitigation strategy, the people that stand to benefit and many of the panelists before me have emphasized this. The people that stand to benefit the most from retrofits are those living in communities that have been historically underserved by state energy and utility programs. These are folks living in environmental justice communities as well as low income residents. And these are the very people that are prioritised in this legislation Scaling up the retrofitting of homes uh 200,000 per year for the next 10 years, which is what this legislation aims to do is an explicit goal already articulated in the administration's 2050 decarbonization plan and in the draft CCP As we all know, buildings are the second largest source of carbon emissions and the state this legislation, this bill will develop a plan to reduce annual statewide housing-related emissions by 50% by the year 2030 and eliminate housing-related6064 emissions by 2050. I want to talk briefly about a recent article um that I found really insightful retrofits as we all know, are about reducing energy use and reducing carbon based emissions. However, retrofits are about so much more and one of the more powerful speakers before me emphasise the theme and the urgent need6088 for safety, one more minute. This recent study conducted by Harvard published in the peer reviewed journal Energy quantified what they refer to as the non energy benefits of retrofits of public housing. So they observed the expected results that retrofits generate financial savings. However, these researchers also observed some surprising results that the retrofits actually created cooler neighborhoods, that the retrofitted buildings were more resilient to increasing heat because they were more insulated. And lastly, they found that the retrofit homes had improved indoor air quality compared to pre retrofit data and that this improved indoor6128 air quality lead to a reduction in the transmission of airborne diseases. I'm going to close by saying this legislation is also designed to create jobs and to offer union sponsored programs to up skill re skilled and trained workers. The big picture is that this legislation will generate if you could wind up real financial savings, reduce harmful greenhouse gas emissions and create jobs in the very communities that need it the most. Thank you for your time and consideration. Thank you Sarah. I do want to ask our witnesses to stick to the three minutes. I think we're all familiar with the bill at this point. I think witnesses have done an able job. So6167 why don't you focus on the remaining comments on things that that we haven't heard yet because I believe that the committee has been very attentive and as and knows what it's heard and appreciates what it's heard, what additional things are there to think about. I don't know who's next but I'd like to direct that request to him or to her to them. I believe I'm next Mr mr Chairman, this is Mark Diane and from Newton speaking in favor of the bill that the last several witnesses have been speaking in favour of and I will attempt to say new things. Uh one thing I will say, which was not my notes is I want to congratulate the chairman, mr Barrett and the committee for a victory that was achieved today that has passed without notice, which is a month and a half ago. The utilities position was that conversion from gas to electric heat pumps was not cost effective. And today, without a lot of fanfare, they said it was now cost effective differences. They? Re calculated things counting the social cost of carbon emissions, which is something that I am. As I recall, Mr Barrett personally injected into the legislation that was passing and insisted that we all support and adopt and I think occasionally we do things that really work and that should be noted. So, congratulations Senator Barrett and to the committee for making that happen. Okay. Um yeah, We believe that retrofitting buildings to zero emissions is an expense of approximately $25-$30,000 per unit. That's on the basis of our own analysis and discussion with the low income weatherization agencies that are doing it so that if we talk about getting building emissions down to zero from the residential housing sector, that's what we're talking about 25 to $30,000 at current prices going forward. That's a significant amount of money. It's more than mass save now finances and you know, it comes to the significant amounts of money going forward. The one of the advantages of this bill is that it sets forth the goal that is substantial and extensive overtime and allows for cost reductions as the result of mass production. That we envision. We envision 100% subsidy for low income housing, as is currently the plan with mass aid and with the related low income weatherization, we expect that for the market based, there will be a mixture of incentives and lending and personal homeowner expenditure that will cover these costs. So we expect the costs to go down. We expect participants who can afford to to be borrowing some of the money. That is the reason that we support the idea of the Green Bank. And I would recommend that the committee look at legislation to allow utility on bill financing of some of these projects. As far as I know, the most successful heat pump promotion Program in the United States is done by the Tennessee Valley Authority, where for essentially no money down, that will put a new heat pump on your bill on the bill that goes to the house for the hand of the thing. They have over 50% penetration of heat pumps in that market. Um obviously we will have to refocus repurpose mass say funding will have to draw from federal funds to make this happen. Thank you Mark I'm sorry you're going to say something. Just I would say on the mass saved question there's a lot of support in our bill and others and Senator Barrett's bill itself for more oversight of mass save and the discussion of its role florida. I want to just say that we are skeptical, but we're trying to be open minded about whether massive can play this role due to the conflict of interest between drive basically driving residential gas out of the market and the participation of gas, electric utilities in the governance of mass safe. Were we would put it forward as a challenge to mass safe, can they be a major player in6425 this or are they going to be as they denied today being foot draggers. Thank you Mark That is a good question. Can mass save be saved? We will have to see uh, and and they do bear a heavy burden because I suspect there is a lot of internal corporate controversy and division which makes them conceivably are arguably poor choices to continue to lead the,6449 the overall effort in any event our next witness. Uh uh, that may be the end of the panel's, that's the end of the panel. Uh, the only thing I would, I want to ask whether there are questions of this expert panel from committee members.6465
The only question I would profit to you all does revolve again around this matter of financing. I think the call for 100 subsidies uh, probably would result in a, an overall cost that the state government I could not meet. So I hope that the advocates will consider ah what combination of financing, including self financing will have to be mandated here. I don't think incentives will be enough. I imagine we'll have to impose a requirement just as we do for septic systems when homes change hands, these things raise alarms at the outset, but are accepted after the fact homeowners have to accept the idea that just as the septic system needs to be upgraded perhaps so does the energy system in a home at the time that it changes hands and then slowly over the course of years, we will get the housing done that we need to get done. This isn't going to happen through a massive top down government program of giveaways, although there should be subsidies to help and there should be low interest loans to help. But even alone involves an expense, an expense that in this case would have to be mandated on the homeowner or the home purchaser. You pay back the principle, but it's still money you wouldn't choose to expand if6560 you were given a choice and I expect that6563 were coming to these very difficult questions of trade6566 offs, right. If you have a comment by all means feel free to offer it. Um
but I'm beginning to think that carats alone are going to carry the day. I mean, we'd be happy to work with the committee and we are thinking about these things with you. I would suggest adding to the, the tools at hand, there's regulation about um, okay, you could mandate that heat pumps be uh, basically air conditioner replacement, be heat pumps, Which would be a very modest cost for somebody who is replacing a failing air conditioning system. The difference is minor, but a huge impact in terms of putting heat pumps into people's houses at rather rapid pace. Air conditioners fail at the rate of about four or 5% of the total involved every year. Um, and that's there's no audit anyway, I would just suggest looking at that avenue is the ones as well as you've suggested as part of how we could work together to make this happen. Thank you. Mr Diane interesting suggestion. A radical, but but then the time seemed to require are thinking about things6637 we were not thinking about in earlier years. Thank you sir. Um if I could continue to work down sure, our list of witnesses on behalf of an act for building justice with jobs, I think I see Mr hanky eating whose name has been invoked several times earlier is mr keating here.
Good afternoon, everybody part. Okay, you're breaking up a little bit.6664 Really?
Oh uh hank. I think you're coming in very faintly if I'm and if I'm representative on
tell you what, we're going to move on to another witness or two and then return to hank when he's uh with us is Jonathan. Grossman,6691 who is part of the mass renews is Jonathan with us.
Uh How about James p Collins the fourth.
I know Sue Butler is with us. Yes. Hello? Hi, how are You? three minutes now, what's that? Will I take my three minutes now by all means. Thank you. I'm delighted to be here speaking to you. Thank you for the opportunity to support H 3365 and S 2226. Justice with jobs is really important. Um I am a visiting scholar at Harvard divinity school on climate and morality and past6735 president of Green decade Cambridge. I've had many roles with regard to energy efficiency and particulates. I founded the home energy efficiency team and I testified on behalf of the mass nurses association with the um state Against Particulates have worked very closely with Jonathan Boncore E at Harvard School of Public health on the dangers and risks, particularly to urban populations. From particulates which caused cardiopulmonary disease and dementia, we do not need a large urban population of poor demented people and we need to be very careful about that. Um by changing from gas, which is in no way natural to an electric based energy system in the house. We rid the atmosphere in the cities of particulates, which we really need to do, I have long experience in that process. I got my first energy audit in 1979 and I own two buildings in mid Cambridge. Seven apartments total 13,000 square feet. I air sealed and insulated6804 the building, cutting a heating load by 25% which allowed me to put in geothermal systems which he and cool the apartments for my tenants, My tenants and I all subscribe to 100% renewable energy electricity through the city's program and we are now 100% off carbon fuels for our housing. I did that as a single mom, a nurse working part time6831 and the landlady who was careful with her rinse, accumulated some debt6835 and spent some savings and I think the foot6838 dragging on this is just unbelievable. Your program is excellent. Building jobs for people who need6845 jobs is superb. When I was president of Green Decade Cambridge, I worked with Jones agricola, who worked working with youth build built affordable housing in Roxbury out of structurally insulated panels, used it as a training opportunity for the young black men in the area And worked closely with the carpenters union that was over 106868 years ago. We should have been doing this long ago. We need to be much more aggressive and this act is really an excellent act. The training is very important um particularly with regard to insulation. The humidity issues within a building can be massive and dangerous and if you don't have adequate airflow and that building accumulates humidity, you get wrought. And the most, the best example I have of that is my partner Claudio, his ladder against the wall, check a window and the wall was so rotten the latter fell through it as he climbed it So there can be a great deal of hidden moisture accumulation. You need really good training for the people who need the jobs and all the other gains that will be available to environmental and economic justice communities who deserve this action. Thank you.
I can't hear you. I've been trying to speak to other things from your usual senator. Barrett, you are6938 a muted
thank you sir. Well entertain questions every three or four witnesses here. So I want you to stand by if you can we'll try to here at this point from mr hanky eating when we had hoped to hear from a little earlier.
If bank isn't yet with us we will we will move on to a Jonathan, Grossman, Jonathan with us or James Collins Yes, yes yes. Mr Chairman, I'm here in place of James Collins Oh very good. Okay. Uh Mr Oppenheim three minutes so we'd love to hear from you. Thank you very much.
So I am Gerald Oppenheim, I am council to the low income energy affordability network lean and we appreciate very much this opportunity um to address as currently drafted bills H 332033413365
and S 21522226213
to um Lee in as many of you know is the network of community action agencies that deliver energy efficiency to low income families across the commonwealth. Lean agencies have successfully delivered energy efficiency under federal programs since 1975. And for 40 years integrated federal programs into a partnership with utilities that evolved into mass save with your adoption of the restructuring act in 1997.
The objectives of these bills that we're addressing to substantially increase efforts to reduce greenhouse gases are critical care should be taken to preserve the scale, uniformity efficiency and expertise of the existing uniquely successful structure without placing a difficult financial burden on individual households which gets exactly to the financing and scale issues that uh that have come up so often today. Mhm. It will take an additional $500 million 10
years. That's $5 billion low-income
households living in buildings with 1-4 units. Mhm. Used e. v. s. another 4.7 billion. That's that's additional non-ratepayer funding that will be required over the next decade. More than 9.7 billion altogether to electrify just every low income households for heating and transportation.
Yes, lean and mass a have installed already a comprehensive suite of measures at large scale yet at no cost to about a half million low income households in every corner of the commonwealth By a diverse workforce. In 21 languages will full project7132 with full project management and strict 100% quality control to guarantee results, warmth, safety and customer satisfaction measures save low-income households as much as 40%. And the economic value of health benefits alone, exceed weatherization and heating project costs. All low income funding is distributed across all parts of the commonwealth, proportionately to poverty Serving all EJ communities, demographically proportionately 84% of renters. Every public housing authority Has been served, but I might just have 10 seconds more. Sure, as as well as 84% of state identified multi family focus disrupt, disrupting and dismantling the team of thousands of professionals it takes to achieve this would lose would cost time and be counterproductive in many other ways. So we look forward to working with you on on7193 all these bills. Um and I ask you to please consult a written testimony for additional details. Uh Thank you. Mr Oppenheim and I. And earlier Sue Butler. Are there questions of Miss Butler? Mr Oppenheim?
Yeah, I'll be candid this idea that everything all these improvements have to be delivered for free at a time when we have a flat state income tax. And at a time7224 when the proposal to create a graduated one already dedicates the money to other purposes. I don't see how uh builds the sweeping are anywhere near affordable. Um, let's hope that we have an overwhelming Democratic U. S. Senate elected next year and an overwhelmingly Democratic United States House of Representatives elected next year because absolutely that I don't see how we afford this, but what? But that's just A comment on the nature of a question, one that Mark Diane is already attempted valiantly to answer. And I wish 3, 3 for a moment. I found using the existing incentives to be very helpful. And I put in some myself, but what we have is quite successful. So you you absorb some cost in other words to which is my point, right? It's my responsibility.
And no, I and by extension is the responsibility of the individual homeowner. If the individual owns a home, whoever owns the house is going to have to contribute something into the pot, yep. Yeah, I would only say that there are of course, uh, and three cheers for your hope on the federal level, But there are people for whom,7301 that's just not possible. And as a Commonwealth, we7305 still need the greenhouse gas reductions that fixing our homes, our people, but it would be it needs to be 20% of the state, Not 35%, not7316 40%, not 50%. So the line driving here becomes key. So that means, Yes, line drawing is always very difficult but I agree that's that's something we need to work on. So thank you all and I'm going to move on and invite Lillian McCarthy to testify from our climate of millions with us. Mhm. Yeah. Mhm. If Lillian is working at connecting to us, I'd like to see if paul pop and shock 3 50 Central mass can be with us
According to my list. Uh these are the witnesses who are who have signed up in advance to testify on behalf of 20-26 at age 33 65. Your testimony collectively has been most um stimulating and I want to thank all of you who testified on behalf of these two bills. I do want to move on if we can to hearing legislation and act relative to energy catch.7381 Excuse Me Age 33 61. Sabrina Patterson.7386 Is she in the house? Mhm. I am here. Yes I am here. Hello? Why don't you why don't we hear your testimony now? Thank you so much. Well I was prepared to say good morning and now I will say good afternoon to everyone. Thank you for having me today. I'm testifying in support of House Bill 3361 enact relative to energy conservation and urging a favorable recommendation by this joint committee. I want to point out at the outset that this bill is actually an identical refile to h. b. 29 17 from last session, which did receive a favourable committee recommendation. So I would just respectfully urge the committee to take the same7433 action this session, House Bill 3361 seeks to eliminate an outdated sunset date on the use of energy energy monitoring systems in multi family housing. So the energy restructuring act of 1997 expressly granted the owners of residential properties the right to operate an energy monitoring system, which we refer to as sub metering for heat and air conditioning. If the system was installed prior to july 1st 1997
That there is no rational basis for the inclusion of an arbitrary date of 1997 and coupled with the fact that modern systems are much more effective and accurate today. House Bill 3361 strikes the sunset date and thereby making energy monitoring systems installed on any date permissible in the commonwealth
said metering occurs when an owner of a multi unit property with a single meter uses a computerised monitoring system to allocate energy usage to each individual unit. The sub meter accurately measures the energy consumption in each unit, whereby owners then bill each occupant for the cost of their units individual consumption responsibly allocating energy resources in this manner promotes energy conservation and fairness among residents of each unit By way of background. The current law already grants the owners of residential properties the right to submit er for heat and air conditioning if the energy monitoring system was installed before July 1, 1997. Um and just as a side note, water sub metering was authorized by the legislature in 2010.
Moreover Municipal health departments at one time had the ability to grant variances for properties installed subsequent to that date. However the Department of7546 Public Health had at one time issued an opinion letter ruling that sub7550 metering violates the state sanitary code In a superior court decision ruling on the matter. The court found the property owners argument in favour of submitting to be persuasive but that the proper7562 form for clarification is the legislature. This was the Friedman vs M. IT case back in 1997. Um as a result of the regulatory structure being so7573 kind of convoluted business owners have ceased installing energy monitoring systems and new developments losing significant conservation of gas and electricity throughout the state. So we would just urge support for this. HB 3361. I'm happy to answer any questions. Um And again it's an identical built to last session re filed for this session. Thank you. Thank you very much for testifying again. Uh Do we have questions of Miss patterson
hearing? None will we'll move on except that I may have and I apologize if this was the case, I may have not seen a raised hand
from Senator Pacheco. Uh It didn't show up on my screen but my staff tells me that Mark may have been raising his hand,
so if Senator Pacheco's here and
all right, well, we'll continue to move on. We're now going to hear some7639 testimony. Oh, I'm sorry, is do I hear somebody? Yeah, that's me, I will, I'll wait till you get through this testimony. Thank you. Mr Chairman, Okay, Senator Pacheco, you may want to speak now. The next several witnesses are are on an act to improve outdoor lighting and increased Mark visibility. So it would be appropriate if you wish to make an additional comment to make it now in connection with7668 the bill we just heard.
Yeah, I was I was just wanting to put on the table as you know with energy efficiency and the so called S codes that are out there in the commonwealth that have been7685 working with school apartments, uh all kinds of financing mechanisms will you to do the work upfront and it's really financing the project over a period of years and they pay with the savings in a big part of the building, justice for jobs, peace and the financing you're concerned, which I, I don't disagree with. I think that some of what you had to say does need to be addressed, but a lot of it is being addressed in the suggestion of ensuring we have the right financing tools available to see ec or the creation of a Green bank so that you can float the financing and the financing of the construction of what needs to be done actually is paid by the savings and in many in particular, the environmental justice communities and Mark dining could go into it in detail, but We're looking at numbers where you could have as much as 50-70%,7749
savings in terms of energy costs for the homeowners or the landlord's uh, that own the on the property. So you're, you're talking about huge savings where those savings can be applied to uh, to this issue. But we can, we can talk about it further and I believe that is, that is an issue we need to get you some additional back uh, back up on. But it's not unusual in the esco world to see as a matter of fact they signed contracts upfront7792 guarantee. Let me let me put a question. Senator, first of all, I appreciate your comment and let's wave most of this discussion for later. But I'm hearing increasingly that natural gas services actually focused on cities. Natural gas pipes don't tend to extend out to rural areas. So most of our homes are heated with natural gas and most of those homes are in the denser populated places, close in suburbs, like the ones I represent. And uh, places that are even closer to urban locations. I'm told that 20 that an investment in a heat pump for a multiple unit dwelling or for an individual home in my district. And in Holmes district dancer will never pay for themselves, but it has to be done anyway because we simply have to get multiple unit dwellings and individually owned homes off natural gas for the most part. So I'm groping and I do invite the help of everyone here, there aren't going to be 70% savings over time. In fact, so far as I can tell for many buildings and as you know, the answer to this question is highly individualized. It's very hard to generalize, but for many urban buildings, there will be no savings at all because we subsidize cheap fracked natural gas as a country when we should not do so. So unless we impose carbon pricing on that cheap fracked gas and bring it up to the economic7886 level where7887 it should occupy. We are confronted with the fact that putting in a heat pump, if you heat with gas will lose money no matter how you finance it, the monthly bills will be slightly higher. And of course, there's still a substantial requirement of an upfront expenditure in the first place. We have to find a way of financing it, but not because doing so is cost effective in the conventional sense, it's only cost effective when you import price of carbon, which is artificial
because we don't have a price on carbon. I've submitted7925 bills for year to impose such a price. Those bills have not succeeded, at least not in the conference committee situation, although we did well in the state Senate itself. Senator Pacheco, for which I thank you and others. So, uh we've got to do this. But unlike all the cases we confronted to date, this is not a money saver given indirect subsidies will provide for natural gas consumption. So let's let's continue this off line as it were. But we're dealing now with it or not with a different situation than all the past situations of this kind that we've confronted. That's why the homeowner is going to have to shoulders some money for the greater public good, just as the homeowner does when she buys a house with a septic system, she never makes the money back, but the world is a better place. Uh, it is a tax in other words, it is not a subsidy. So let's let's talk about it. But at the time we've got to we've got to move on to an act to improve outdoor lighting to see whether there are witnesses who wish. Thank you. Mr. Additionally, we've already heard from several legislators if there are there witnesses who wish to testify on S 21 47 or age 33 06 and act to improve outdoor lighting and increased dark sky visibility.
Um, we would like to have dr James Lowenthal speak first for our bill. All right, very good. three minutes. Let's try to be faithful for that, that requirement at this late point. Yes, I'd love to hear from a doctor. Very good. My name is James Lowenthal. I'm a professor of astronomy at smith College. I'm here in my classroom right now with my students in astrophysics. I'm president of the massachusetts chapter of the International Dark Sky Association. I'm speaking in favour of H 33 oh six, S 2147, the so called dark sky bill as a general a general assumption that more light is better and that more light is safer. Decades of studies have shown that that assumption is simply not true, but along with the advent of cheap bright led lights, that assumption has led to higher and higher levels of outdoor lighting in most parts of massachusetts. Darkness at night is now a rare thing. This bill does not propose eliminating lights in massachusetts, just implementing common sense controls on them to minimize their negative effects. What are some of those effects? You'll hear more from dr Mario malta about the serious impacts on human health of bad and excessive lighting, but8092 light pollution, especially blue light is also devastating to wildlife. Dark nights are 1/21 half of the world's natural ecosystems. We can't take the water out of wetlands and expect frogs and salamanders to survive similarly. We can't destroy the night with light pollution and expect any wild wild animals to thrive. Three quarters of mammals are nocturnal artificial light at night disrupts all their essential activities, including feeding mating migration for diurnal animals, light at night disrupts their sleep, which is essentially essential for good health. 40% of birds migrate and 80% of those migrated night, many of them using the stars to navigate in the presence of light pollution. Migrating birds get disoriented and drawn off course. 100 million to a billion birds die every year in the US due to light pollution. These effects are all widely recognized in the scientific community. The International Union for the Conservation of Nature issued a resolution this month on taking action to reduce light pollution. With eight recommendations including avoid over lighting, avoid upward lighting, minimize blue light. A major new report to the United Nations called dark and quiet skies. Makes 13 similar recommendations. All of those are fully consistent with the content of the dark sky bill and light pollution wastes energy and money. The number one largest budget line item for the Central Services department in my town, North Hampton is electricity mostly to operate streetlights and that's after the conversion to LEDs. Much of that light and energy are wasted by poorly8194 designed lights when we water lawns. We keep the water on the Lawn we don't spray the water off the property and on all the neighbouring8202 streets. Likewise, we should keep light at night down where it's needed, not sprayed all over the place including into the sky,8209 Fortunately light pollution is easy to fix. Sorry, I'm nearly done. Could have another 30 seconds. Thank you. It's8218 easy to fix this bill says publicly funded lighting projects. Just have to follow current best practices not to blue properly shielded no brighter8226 than necessary. It says the D. O. T. Needs to put light only where it's needed. Not everywhere. And it says utilities need to charge cities only for the electricity they actually use. So cities have an incentive to dim8238 their lights at night. Not a financial penalty. Does this mean our cities have to remove lights? No they just have to adhere to best practices when they install new lights. Doesn't mean it will be dark and dangerous. Not at all.8250 It's a dark sky bill. Not a dark ground bill. In fact our cities will have better safer light. It's a cost neutral bill. It has broad support. 31 co sponsors Sierra Club mass and other leading environmental and public health or over 1600 people have signed a petition. We don't need more light, we need better life. Thank you very much.
Thank you very much professor and greetings to you and to your students. We're pleased to have them as a part of this hearing. Are there additional folks I know there are who wish to testify on this piece of legislation.
I admire the self restraint8292 here but I think I think I'm next. Hello everyone. Shall I get started. Sure, good afternoon. My name is Avalon Owens and I'm a biologist studying insect conservation at Tufts university. I live in Cambridge. I've researched the effects of light pollution on fire flies and other insects for the past seven years and I want to say a few words in support of the dark sky bill. Fireflies are magical. Their ambassadors of natural bonder. So many of us have memories of chasing fireflies as Children. There are a huge part of new England culture and they're disappearing from many places where they were once found. My work shows that light pollution hurts fireflies. Firefly's flash to communicate with each other and when lights go on they go off. It's like the flick of a switch, no communication means no reproduction, which means no more fireflies and that's exactly what we're seeing and fireflies are only the most obvious example of how devastating light pollution can be for wildlife. If you've ever stayed up late on your phone in bed or used a full spectrum light to pull yourself out of the boston Winter blues, then you know that seeing light at the wrong time can make your body think that it's daytime or summer. Well when moths or bats think it's daytime they go back to sleep instead of meeting foraging, controlling are8376 pests or pollinating our plants. When songbirds think it's summer, they developed to early in the spring and migrate to late in the fall and plants and insects are the most vulnerable of all. They're so small that a single light can change their entire habitat and they can't close their eyes or put up curtains, it doesn't have to be this way. The dark sky bill will help ensure that our lights become dimmer warmer, which means less visible to insects and shielded so that light only goes where it is needed. The fireflies do not need it, reduction of roadway lighting in low traffic areas in particular has the potential to instantly and dramatically improve these vile natural habitats. But updating the lights and public parks such as the wife Brooke pathway right by my house will also make a difference. It could bring fireflies back. I have previously worked with the government of Taipei City Taiwan to install to install dim amber shielded lights at firefly reintroduction sites in public parks right in the middle of the city. The fireflies came back and elderly residents8440 were able to see them again after more8442 than 50 years of darkness. You can't put a price on that kind of thing. But you don't have to because environmentally friendly lighting saves money and the planet. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much Avalon and will continue with testimony on this topic. I do want to say that due to a pre existing a doctor's appointment, I'm going to have to leave8462 it promptly at two. But the House chair representative Jeff Roy has graciously agreed to continue to hear testimony. Um and I apologize in advance for my impending absence With that I do want to hear from the next witness on this topic. Yes, I believe I'm next and I can do it telehealth uh conference for senator Barrett if you wish. I'm Mario motta. I'm a cardiologist started Salem Mass in the partner system and I'm a trustee of the American Medical Association which is the governing board of the A. M. A. And therefore I can speak for a a policy which supports the principles of House 33 oh six Senate 2147. I'm also a past president of the massachusetts Medical Society which strongly supports these bills to be passed. The M. M. S. Has formally sent a letter to this committee in support. I'm here to tell you why these leading medical societies support the lighting bill as is that's before you for health reasons. I am sure many of you notice glare disability from unshielded lights at night glare leads to safety issues with many drivers, especially the elderly. All LED lights should be properly shielded to avoid this hazard. And blue emissions8543 should be avoided as blue scatters the most causing the most severe glare. The reason why many elderly can't drive at night is not because they can't they don't have the ability to drive because we have poorly designed outdoor street lighting. It doesn't have to be that way. Um Hi blue 4000 LED s are road safety hazard outdoor streetlights spills into bedrooms at night in high blue content has been shown to suppress melatonin, which adversely affects human health. This leads to an increase in some serious health consequences, such as sleep disturbances, an increase in certain endocrine cancers such as breast and prostate, An increase in diabetes and obesity rates and some psychiatric disturbances. These health effects are now8594 well established by multiple studies worldwide. One of the best studies was done right here in Massachusetts by Harvard, where 110,000 nurses were followed for over 15 years. Those with the highest street light spillage into bedrooms had a 15% increase in developing breast cancer compared to those with the lowest street light exposure. This was controlled for indoor lighting. This was specifically outdoor lighting spilling into the bedroom. Another Harvard study showed the same effect with men and8627 prostate cancer. These advanced cancer rates have led the american cancer society to advocate for limiting nighttime blue exposure. You may ask why would that be? The answer is that light at night suppresses melatonin, a hormone we produce at night and 4000 K. Blue light suppresses melatonin 10 times more than warmer light. We make millions of new cells daily summer8653 bad copies that do not function and others can be cancerous melatonin during the night at acts as an immune system. Adjuvant helping our immune system to clean up bad, impossible cancer cells that have been developed. Lights do not cause cancer blight at night suppresses the cleanup function of our immune system. I'm just about done allowing some cancers to get started. That's why blue light at night is bad for human health. The 2017 Nobel prize in medicine was awarded to the three researchers who elucidated biochemical pathway that shows how all this occurs in humans excess light at night. Adversary affects animals as well as humans. I urge you to pass House 33 oh six Senate 2147 as does the American Medical Association Association, the massachusetts Medical Society and are leading medical societies. Thank you. Mhm. Thank you sir. And I much appreciate the time you've given to this.
The next witness on this topic. Hi, my name is TIM Brothers. Thank you to the committee for allowing us to speak. I live in Peril massachusetts with my wife and two young Children and I'm the Observatory manager at MIT Wallace Astrophysical Observatory, where I'm speaking you to you today from Westford massachusetts. Uh And I'm also the vice president of the massachusetts chapter of the I. D. A. So the first point is that are nighttime environment continues to brighten at an unsustainable rate Over the last eight years. The sky above Westford has brightened by 25%. That's 3% per year, well above the national average of 2.2% growth rate for light pollution in this country. These changes are having a detrimental effect on our education research and k through 128763 stem community outreach programmes at MIT. Similarly in Petrol, the light pollution is increasing at a rate of 6% per year, approximately three times the national rate. This unsustainable growth is 12 times the population growth rate of the town and is likely more to do with severe several poorly implemented state subsidized lighting projects that shine light directly upwards in our town. At this rate, we will lose our view of the Milky Way and petrol in five years. My second point is that doing the right thing does not cost more in this case, it will in fact save money As we did successfully in Westford in 2019. Shortly after our testimony last session, we used this very bill as a roadmap to choose appropriate lighting for our rural town. In addition, we developed a roadway demonstration of five different led fixtures and one existing high pressure sodium fixture. The public feedback was overwhelmingly in favour of the warmest possible lights available. The 2200 K similar to the colour that we experience now with the high pressure sodium
from the survey results we gathered, we learned that one particular light one in every single category, glare color visibility overall preference. And that most residents prefer to 50% dimming value over 100% full illumination setting by dimming. We will save 75% of our energy use versus 50% if we had not also to settle a question posed to us by this committee. Two years ago, it also happened to be the most affordable option using several metrics including lumens per watt per fixture and the lowest purchase price upfront. So to put it clearly this was the cheapest option available. It was also the most preferred and the most environmentally friendly. So while leads continue to become more efficient and use less watts, The tariffs still charge a flat rate of8877 25 watts. So8878 for example, with these exact same lights with peppers lights, if we choose 12 watts at the 50% dimming rate, We are still being charged 258886 watts a disincentive towards cutting our energy use this bill will fix this and realize significant additional savings for our communities. Last time I told you of my8897 Children's love the starry skies of peple and I worry that the next generation will run out of8901 night today I report to you that if we do nothing today we will soon see that to come to pass. Thank8906 you for your time and I appreciate your attention to this important issue. Thank you very much Professor Brothers. Uh, tim at this particular time I'm going to absent myself and hand the metaphorical gavel to representative Roy. Uh, we will have, we will invite questions from legislators to all of you but I thought I would hold questions until we had gotten the whole picture from a panoply of witnesses. Uh, thank you Chair Roy and I want to thank all of you who have testified so far today and I apologize8939 for my need to leave early. Well, Senator Barrett, thank you very much. I wish you well in your appointment and we'll see you soon. Uh, the next witness I see from this panel is kelly, Beatty kelly. Uh, if you're ready, we'd love to hear from you.
But thank you Representative Roy and other members of the committee. Um I'm8970 going to be quite brief on this. You've heard many aspects of this bill discussed. Um and you know, the people you've heard from, we've been advocating for this bill for a very long time and one of the takeaways that I have gotten in listening to stakeholders like other reps in the legislature and from lighting people, even people who run uh town management. A lot of lighting has8996 been installed. Street lighting in particular, that is not very good. And unfortunately most towns do not have people on their, on their staffs Who are have any familiarity with lighting whatsoever. So bad choices get made uh, inadvertently. Um and with unintended consequences, had this bill been enacted 109019 years ago and we were pushing for 10 years ago, a lot of this could have been avoided, as was pointed out by Senator Creem at the outset hours ago, massachusetts is the only new England state that has never passed statewide outdoor lighting legislation. This is a bill that has the backing9036 of the same lighting professionals who once opposed it. And in fact, we've been having discussions with them. Senator Creem mentioned some minor amendments that we are proposing to make this bill that will make it even better. And we have their support. And in fact, this bill has drawn attention nationally uh from lighting advocates and lighting professionals and it's being watched as a model to other states. So Representative Roy and other members of the committee, I encourage you. You have a very challenging task here. Some of these bills that have been presented today are unbelievably complicated and I don't envy you. This is not one of them. This is a stand alone bill is a win win, it costs, it will save communities money. I encourage you and the rest of the committee to report this out favorably in the most9086 strongest terms at your earliest convenience so that we can get on with it and start doing the right thing for the commonwealth. Thank you very much. Well, thank you very much for your testimony. I appreciate it. Are there other folks on this particular panel?
If not let me see if any of our committee members have questions for the members of this panel.
I'm not seeing any hands up, but I do want to recognize I neglected to do it earlier. But Representative Hawkins was a House member of the committee joined us quite a while ago. So, uh with no questions for that panel. I'll move on to the next witness which is Katrina shepherd, Katrina are you with us?
I am not saying Katrina in the list of participants. So we will move on to gale walker Gail. Are you with us?
I am not seeing Gail in the list of participants. So let me move on to uh, clint, Richmond clint, are you with us?
I am not seeing clinton the list of the participants. So I will go to jess Norwegian jests. Are you with us?
I am not seeing jess Norwegian in the list of participants. That is the complete list of all witnesses who registered and signed up to testify. Is there anyone here who is on the call at this time that did not get reached?
Well with that. I want to thank everyone for participating in the hearing. I guess I got about three minutes worth of work today. But thank you all this was a tremendous learning experience of great testimony was heard today and we will take these matters under advisement and look forward to speaking with you soon. And at that I'll call this hearing to a close
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