2022-01-04 00:00:00 - Joint Committee on Environment, Natural Resources and Agriculture
2022-01-04 00:00:00 - Joint Committee on Environment, Natural Resources and Agriculture
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
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the environment, natural resources and agriculture, I am privileged to serve as the Senate chair of this committee
today we will hear various bills concerning animals,106 hunting and concrete. Um I am joined today by111 my friend and house co chair Representative113 Carolyn Dykema who will shortly introduce the House members of the committee on the senate side. I extend a welcome and gratitude120 to the Senate Vice chair Senator Eldridge and senators Comerford more, Rush and Fattman Chair, Dykema The floor is yours to introduce the House members. Thank you madam Chair, appreciate the chance to be here with you today. Um I'm state Representative Carolyn Dykema and I have the privilege of introducing our house members who are here today and I'd like to welcome Representative Gentile of Sudbury Representative Giannino of revere representative Carey of Easthampton, Representative Capano of Lynn and our ranking minority member, Representative oral of Lakeville and as additional members join will be sure to introduce them at that time. Thank you, madam Chair. Fantastic, thank you, madam Chair. Okay, a few housekeeping things before we get started with testimony. The hearing is being live streamed as several of you are accustomed to at this point um you can view this hearing on the state legislative website For those of you joining us on teams who have signed up to testify, please do keep yourselves muted. Unless you are speaking, it will help us to keep the hearing moving along.
In fact we're gonna mute someone right now. There we go. Okay, um
people who want wish to testify today were able to sign up in advance and we will proceed with those individuals who did sign up on my list. Committee members who wish to ask a question should please use the raise hand function in teams only committee members may ask questions. Please do not raise your hand213 unless you are a committee member. The chat is for committee business only in technical assistance. Please do not enter any substantive220 information into the chat as it will not be saved or considered in our assessment of these bills. If you signed up to testify, I will call your name when it is your turn to speak. Please mute yourself at that time. If you are not present, when I call your name, you will be moved to the end of the list of testify Ayers we will try to circle back to you. Please note that 60 people are signed up to speak today. That's quite a large number. Um individuals may testify only once and testimony is limited to three minutes. Though you may comment on more than one bill during your allotted time. Again, please keep your testimony to three minutes so we can hear from everyone due to the large number of people testifying at today's hearing. We will be keeping time strictly if you're testifying on multiple bills, you will still have that same three minute limit and again you will have only one opportunity to testify. With my deep thanks for your broad advocacy. You'll hear a time when your time is up and I believe we also have a countdown clock from L.279 I. S. Thank you very much. So281 you will282 know when your time is ticking down um and we'll ask you to wrap up when you hear that time and is your three minutes um clocks down as is customary, we will take legislators and other elected officials out of turn. Um and298 it is my privilege and pleasure to start our testimony today302 um with remarks from congressman Richard NEal, Good afternoon congressman. Thank you for joining us.
[RICHARD NEAL (US CONGRESS MA):] Glad to be with you madam Chairperson. Let me thank you and the committee for your attention on this issue and a reminder of just how important it is here in central and western massachusetts as well as in northern Connecticut. I've been working with our colleagues in the Connecticut delegation on the issue for years. We know that the quarry has had a concrete that is contained period type, which originated in Stafford springs Connecticut and when used in residential and commercial foundations extending as far as 44 sq mi. Still learning the extent of the area that's impacted in Massachusetts. We cannot waste time and your good actions will be helpful and we must act now. I have raised the issue directly with governor baker secretary Mnuchin and I a year ago,363 about a year and a half ago actually, we have proposed and offered some tax relief to homeowners at the time.
And I have raised the371 issue specifically with the current White House, where I've been lucky to have a number of my staffers from the ways and means committee now currently employed in september the committee undertook the enormous task of marking up build back better in four days. There are almost 40 hours of debate. The committee389 worked on 66 amendments, debated measures that will provide support for all members of the American family. But there were two provisions that passed through the committee that would ensure that homeowners have a way to defray the cost of replacing for repairing paypal is crumbling. one reveals the tax cuts and jobs act temporary limitation on personal casualty loss deductions, so that homeowners413 whose residents were affected by deteriorating concrete foundations caused by the presence of stereotype Can deduct losses. Retroactive to 2018 the other creates a new federal tax credit.
The neighborhood homes investment tax credit to encourage rehabilitation have deteriorated, homes in distressed neighborhoods. Be assured as chairman of the committee. Those items will stay in once the Senate adopts these provisions, They are very442 important and I think that the bill444 back better act getting it to the floor for a vote in the Senate is essential to the mission statement that you madam chairperson have offered today. The assistance is vital. Homeowners find themselves in his position through no fault of their own and we have to find solutions to lessen their burden. Well this is not a one size fits all fixed.
We know that it will take strong federal state local partnerships to get us over the goal line. I'm committed to doing my best on this at the federal level473 and continue to support the work being done at the state level to assist those homeowners who find themselves in this perilous situation. Let me thank two longtime friends ann Gobi484 and brian Ashe They are superb elected officials and they have been out front on this issue as it relates to central and western massachusetts and I thank you for the time madam chairperson.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you very much congressman, appreciate your testimony. I see no questions from the committee, so I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day and thank you again for taking the time to speak with us.
Okay, let's take a brief moment to welcome514 the House Vice chair of the committee, Mindy, Domb and we will move to a senator and Gobi for testimony.
[SEN GOBI:] Thank you madam. Chair into both chairs, appreciate it and I will do my best. So I don't hear that. Ding going off, I do have to533 say of you know that this is my going into535 my 21st year in the Legislature and this is the first time that I have filed a bill that I've had a congressman and one of congressman Neil stature come to testify in support and that is because it is extremely, extremely important. I am not going to go into a lot of detail because I know that you have a number of people near the end of the hearing that I'm going to testify on various aspects. Just very briefly pyrrhotite is a naturally occurring substance um from the information that I have received from our mass state geologist who has sent in some testimony, there is a whole vein of this that goes through massachusetts and actually new England, what we thought was a problem that was confined to cities and towns around the Connecticut border.
We are finding now that is not the case. In fact, since I have filed this legislation with representative Ashe we're now finding homes um in fact just yesterday up in Athol homes and lemon stir homes in Rutland homes and holden homes and grafton barry that have this issue. And just to let you know what happens is that when pyrrhotite after a period of time when it's exposed to water and to um air the it combines and it reacts and it causes the foundations to literally pull apart. So it's a naturally occurring currents excuse me, a naturally occurring compounds. It is not anybody's fault. And628 so the legislation that is filed that talks about asking queries to be um to be tested to have folks in aggregate to make sure that they know it's in the material that they are selling, it is not going after anyone specifically, it is to make sure that we don't have more homes with this because it is a major issue.
We know that our friends in Connecticut give you an example in tallinn Connecticut, a school, a multimillion dollar school had to be torn down because of having pyrrhotite in the foundation, we have homes in Massachusetts. Congressman Neil has come to see homes where you could literally put your finger through the foundation and you will hear from homeowners if a tornado went through our communities as has happened in674 the past, our state, our commonwealth steps up to help people this type of issue that is occurring is not anyone's fault and yet the homeowners are left with a home that basically is worthless because in order to repair these foundations is an incredible amount of money that people do not have insurance does not pay for it and it is a major major problem. Again, you're going to hear from more people in the course of this Day I know that there are other things that we can do to make this bill even a little bit stronger and again, mainly because since it has been filed, we realize that there are more people affected.
I do want to say a special thank you to the division of professional licensure, who has been helping out now with reimbursement for testing, also the division of insurance, who has been very helpful in the state attorney general Maura Healy's office who has been extremely732 helpful and obviously congressman Neal and many of our local partners and again738 I thank you very much and I know that representative Ashe has a few things to add742 as well. Obviously I'm open to any questions but I know that you're going to be hearing a lot746 of testimony and I also want to thank you for putting all the wildlife bills. I have a number of those on the docket and you will be receiving written testimony for me for those.755 Thank you very much.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you very much Senator. Excuse me, I see no questions for the committee so thank you again for your testimony today and we look forward to those written comments as well. Uh next we'll go to representative brian Ashe please.
[REP ASHE:] Thank you madam Chair, I appreciate your time and committee members as well. First I've got to start off echoing thank you so much for chair Neil to come on and and speak in favour of this has been a champion for us coming out and actually seeing some of the homes as well as my co chair on the crumbling foundation committee senator Gobi I also want to, it's really been invaluable as some of our and I think they might be speaking today, I'm not sure but some of our Connecticut legislators as this hit them a couple of years before us So their expertise and everything they've gone through has been invaluable for us um as well, I know you have a lot of residents that are speaking later on that committee hearing, so I don't want to belabor the point815 of it, I'm sure they're going to go over what this means to him.
But bottom line as Senator Gobi mentioned some of these people, you know, it will bankrupt them, they'll either lose their home or the banks will have to take it over, which is no good obviously for the homeowner, but it's no good for property values in any particular area. But even more importantly, it's a public safety issue because there's public buildings as Senator Gobi mentioned one in Connecticut and we're still doing the investigation to find out what buildings around here when the central Western mass may be impacted by this. And The scary thing about it is you can have a foundation for 20 years and it looks like it's intact, its impeccable and then something happens on the outside of the inside where water and air get at it and then all of a sudden it can start the effect.
So it's difficult to say, you can't just watch the progression from day one and say, ok, we know this, this particular foundation is impacted. That's the tricky part about it and if the committee members ever have a chance, I know it's877 one of those things that it's tough to visualize It's tough to get a real understanding unless you can actually see it. And I know senator Gobi and I have been working on this for a few years but probably maybe about a year ago we went and visited a home and it was so dramatic to see their basement and that they were still living in there and897 it was so scary to know that I'll be honest, I wouldn't have wanted to stay in the home. It was, it was that scary looking at the foundation, the cracks and how much damage has he done. So we appreciate the time this committee is taking for listening to our testimony and especially the people that are really impacted that most of them will be testifying later on. So thank you very much.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you so much. Representative I see no questions from members of the committee. Uh next up we have Connecticut state rep Tom Del Nikki,
[REP DELNICKI (CT STATE LEGISLATOR):] Good afternoon madam chair. It's an hour and a privilege to be testifying here Back in 2016. Then mayor del Nikki ran into the issue head on. I had no no clue as to what to expect fast forward to today in the state of Connecticut. We've done a number of things. We have a quarry standard defined and in law we have an aggregate requirement for testing we have when it comes to certificates of occupancy, the purveyor of the concrete and the installer of the concrete has to be listed on there so as to have traceability. We have a captive insurance company in operation. We have had as of their last report979 and I know it's significantly higher today than it was then. As of the 2020 report, they had had 250 repaired foundations
In my neck of the woods down here in Connecticut were looking at somewhere between 5000 and 8000 homes We have had a good solid state bonding revenue stream coming into the captive insurance first four years to the tune of 20 million a year. We then instituted a $12 surcharge on insurance homeowner insurance policies1012 to defray some of the cost To the tune of $1 a month, $12 for the year that produces about 11, 11 million per year. We have an extension in the bonding, we have a four year extension At 25 million per year. This problem as I see it and as a function of what the Army Corps of Engineers had had to state a couple of years back, they actually came in and they did a presentation.
This is just not a Connecticut problem and I believe it's just not a massachusetts problem. The pyrrhotite vein runs from Canada down and I think you're1055 going to see in the not too distant future folks conceivably in new Hampshire and Vermont and even main possibly being affected with this and that's where our federal legislators need to come into play. But there's a number of things that you as a legislature can do to give the folks a light at the end of the tunnel. I took a look at the Senate bill that is proposed. The captive insurance is a great concept there.
We know it works in Connecticut and for the record, I have talked to Mike McLaren who is the superintendent of the Connecticut captive insurance and if massachusetts wanted to utilize our captive insurance, they could set up their own account, put their own money in there and actually use our captive to get the program up and running and our program has tried and true and it's, it's proven and it works, I would be more than happy to welcome any questions on this issue and1122 I can send a packet of information to the1126 committee as to the bills that we have passed in the public acts that we have in place. One more thing and that's the actual reduction in personal property1137 tax on your home. Uh, a program was, was actually created in 2016, right at the beginning of the, of the function of the problem as it developed. one more thing. We're looking at, we're looking at commercial and we're looking at municipal buildings and what the impact could be there because we don't have good details on that.
To this point, we have some folks that have applied for relief with commercial buildings are captive does not allow funding on that. And of course you heard the story about1175 the high school in Connecticut that had to be razed to the ground and rebuilt. The point being quarry standards are a must asAP aggregate standards are must ASAP. I same thing with tax relief for the victims, Same thing with establishing a captive insurance and also a declaration1200 and a report on anyone that's selling property as to whether or not that home that building has concrete that could very well be subject to failure. So again, I thank you for the honor. I thank you for the privilege of testifying it here. And I look forward to working in any fashion that I can to help our neighbors to the north. Thank you madam Chair,
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
thank you very much. Representative, I appreciate your testimony and your offer to continue assisting us as we consider this bill, I see no questions from members of the committee. So again, I thank you for your time today.
We will move to a town of Holland. Selectmen mr James Whalen, please
[JAMES WHALEN (SELECTMAN TOWN OF HOLLAND):] [SB548] madam Chairwoman, I appreciate the time to testify today on Senate bill 548. and for having and for having this hearing in general. Uh I first wish to thank Senator Gobi um Representative Ashe You're not in my district but I thank you as well. Uh Senate Gobi for putting this together while she was our senator here in Holland and for Senator Fattman who for taking this up almost immediately after speaking with1281 myself and others. He recently became our senator after redistricting during my first year as Selectmen in the town of Wales, I became aware of this issue concerning crumbling foundations. At first it was something which was obvious to be of serious concern and as more and more people became aware of this issue, the scope and breadth of the impact it's had on homeowners was staggering as more and more cortes were conducted.
Now I slept in the town of Holland. I attended a forum for homeowners affected by pyrrhotite and residential concrete foundations and learn the extent to which this is affecting not just homeowners but communities up and down the Connecticut river valley possibly further than that. Both Wales and Hollande have homes that are affected. That is why I wanted to testify to this committee in support of the bill. I want to speak to the greater community impact. This issue is potentially going to have rural communities like mine rely heavily on residential property tax revenue to fund our schools and services, loss of houses or even a significant loss of value to the homeowners affected on the scale we are seeing will negatively impact the financial sources we rely on to deliver needed services and services required by law.
It is my opinion that this legislation will create the basis for how this ever1347 evolving and growing problem will be handled as we learn more. I would also like to1351 note that my fellow select board members between a Schmid and Cleveland johnson Supported a motion letter of support of S548 in this hearing back in September, I want to take1360 the time to thank them for their support and for this committee for holding the hearing as well. Right now, homeowners in the communities, they are part of need to know that there is financial support for solving a problem, not of their own doing future homeowners and builders of such homes also need to know. But the materials they used to build are not tainted during construction.
Something which was initially thought to be just a local issue in this part of the Pioneer Valley turns out to be much greater and there needs to be a commonwealth wide effort to combat the situation. I am not personally affected by pyrrhotite, but I would1392 not be a very good leader if I did not stand up and support a piece of legislation that will help those in my town who are, we need something to start with to help our homeowners and communities. And this framework does just that I have submitted or will be submitting further written testimony, but I do not want to take up too much more time because there are many homeowners in this area who wish to speak and I just wanted to speak on behalf of those who are not here today. Thank you.
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Thank you very much. Mr Selectmen. I see no questions from members of the committee. So thank you for your time. Next. We will hear from Representative Kathleen LaNatra please.
[REP LANATRA:] [HB3785] Good it's not morning. Good afternoon madam Chair. It's nice to see you. Nice to see you volume right here. Thank you so much for taking me out of turn. I really appreciate. It's1441 a busy day here in the 12th Plymouth but I'm here to testify on House 3785. It's an act relative to boater safety. There were over 5000 boating accidents nationwide last year and many of those resulted in death in the primary contributing factor was actually operator inexperience and operated in attention. So what this bill does, it requires a boater safety course to be taken before you actually go out and pilot a boat.
The way that1469 it stands now is you could purchase a boat, say a 25-foot boat, never been on the water, before bring it and put it in the water and off you go. Now we drive cars, right? But we have a permit for our car. We have a license for a car, boats don't have brakes. So it's very important. I think this is very important and the reason that we have this bill. It's actually after a young man, David Hansen and he was in the boat between midnight and 2:30 AM with a friend and had no experience while they had a boating accident and David did not make it tragically. He passed, his friend did make it. Um and he's a Kingston resident. He was a call fireman. Very well1509 known and this bill has been around probably seven years now.
It's been worked on thoroughly. I've so many harbour masters that have worked on this with that many will speak to it today um and tragically his mother just passed away from brain cancer. So if at all possible, this is the year really to get this passed.1530 We've had so many deaths, so many accidents and it's just a1535 simple thing. Just take a voter safety course before you actually pilot a boat. You know, everybody wants to go out and enjoy the water, but safety really should come first. So I don't want to take up any more of your time but um in requesting and asking please to consider passing this through committee. So thank you and again, great to see you and I'm sure1556 there is plenty of harbour masters that will speak to this as well.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you so much. Representative, appreciate your time and your testimony. It's great to see you too. It's been a long time. I see no questions from members of the committee. So you are all set. Thank you again, thank you next. We'll hear from Representative Rich Haggerty please.
[REP HAGGERTY:] [HB3784] Thanks. Chair, Rausch and chair Dykema I appreciate you involved. The committee's work over the course of the last year and for taking me out of turn today. Coming for you to ask for your support for H 3784 an act further defining an environmental justice population. This legislation will update the definition of an environmental justice population to include as 1/5 criteria neighborhoods that are located within one half mile of a site which is or has been previously designated as a superfund site as defined by federal law. I was so proud to join all of you just a year ago in defining what environmental justice population is as part of the 2050 road map bill last january to be clear, I strongly support the work we did and the definitions we included at the time, which was to make sure a1624 key focus under the new law was that environmental justice considerations be incorporated into the mepa procedures, the adjustment I'm proposing would make no change to the criteria.
We already included including race, income and english language proficiency, all of which are critically important. Yeah, as has been said, the term EJ population describes situations where multiple factors including both environmental and socioeconomic stressors may act cumulatively to affect health and the environment and contribute to persistent environmental health disparities for that region reason I bring up the topic of superfund sites here in massachusetts. President carter more than 40 years ago created the E. P. A Superfund program to clean up the nation's worst manmade ecological tragedies from Uber and to Weymouth New Bedford to palmer.
Massachusetts is still home to many active superfund sites which some communities have two or more right in in their hometowns and while some of these sites have been cleaned up, which is what is often left behind the populations of people who have dealt with decades of stigma towards their community or their neighborhood, lower property1691 value appreciation and some1693 who simply say they don't want to live in that area of town because of the previous environmental situations that have taken place. Today we have the chance to amend the definition of EJ populations include the neighborhoods in and around superfund sites in the commonwealth and to make sure these populations are recognised and valued and compensated by giving these people a voice after years of being ignored.
To be clear. I view this change in keeping with the mission we developed a year ago in defining what an E. J. Population is at the heart of the matter is that these populations that have been disenfranchised by a variety of factors including pollution. Some communities that may mean airports and incinerators and other communities that may mean commercial dumping and industrial pollution that have lifelong effects on individual health, property values and quality of life. I asked the committee favorable report and I stand ready to work with the chairs as well as the committee to work on this bill. Thank you.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you very much. Representative, I see no questions from members of the committee and I would like to just take a brief moment to extend a welcome to rep Robertson who is a member of the committee and has now been able to join us. Uh we will now hear from Representative tom Stanley please
[REP STANLEY:] [HB1014] [HB1013] Thank you, madam, Chair Chair Dykema and Members of the committee for this time, I appreciate it. I'm here to speak on two bills 1013 an act relative to the conservation of striped bass, referred as the commercial transition bill and house 1014 and act relative to the conservation of Atlantic striped bass. It's a to have a commission and I am1788 asking that at this time 1014 is not put forward, it has been done so in the past and really the time for studying has has passed and there's been a number of private studies, we already know what the situation is. Um with regards to um 11 both 10 13. Um Further it further defines a commercial striped bass license holder and it must have a licence holder must have caught 1000lbs average over over the past five years Must have had license as of 31 December 2020 and there was a hardship provisions and also focuses commercial fishery on fishermen making a major effort total total catch limit based on average poundage landed times number of commercial license holders when their commercial fishermen retires, the license is not transferable.
The average poundage he or she caught reduced from total commercial, it will be reduced from total commercial allowance and The report on total annual catch to1867 90 days after the close of the season. Um noncompliance leads to forfeiture of the license and the hardship provisions. The bill ends the issuing of commercial striped bass fishery licenses new ones, as of1884 January 1 2025. And if the fishery worsens, the division of marine fisheries can change the provisions. Um So with regards to striped bass in general, the recreational wild striped bass fishery is one of the most economically valuable in the state. It's comparable to the mass sea scallop fishery in spending and economic impacts on the Commonwealth's economy.
After the peak spawning years in the early 90s and early 2000s, the striped bass Hit their highest spawning stock biomass in 2 2002. However, by 2015, the stock was officially measured to be just above the overfishing threshold. While the east coast population of striped bass may not be in the immediate trouble today, neither is it robust. There are considerably less large spawning age fish than in 2002 than when the population had been rebuilt from the crash during the 1970s. From overfishing, The lower spawning stock biomass can be seen in the declining spawning success of the last 15 years. The striped bass population is perilously close to joining the many other species of fish managed by the Atlantic States Marine Fishery Commission that are declared as overfished.
This is this has1973 resulted in nearly a 50% decline of the mass recreational striped bass fishery In the past, the N. Word committee has advanced the commission bill respectfully. As I mentioned, the time for another study is over striped bass have been studied by many folks and regulatory agencies and they all point to the demise of the stock, especially data on young of the year. We are close to where we were over 30 years ago when the fishery fisher total crashed due to overfishing. Yeah, 1103 is an important conservation measure that gives the Commonwealth strong controls over commercial and recreational fishing industries to bring the striped bass stock back and generate significant revenue for the state. Other states have implemented game fish reform with great success, namely texas.
When it first declared the red drum a game fish in 1981 followed by other gulf coast states. The red drum population rebounded and now is thriving sports fishing industry in the, in the gulf area. More recently, florida used the game designation to ensure that popular saltwater species populations are protected like the snook Bonefish, tarpon and redfish. So 11 oh three recognizes the contribution of serious commercial fishermen and allows them to stay in the game, so to speak. Thus, I would respectfully request the committee to advance 11 oh three. Now I apologize, transposing my notes from the last session may have referred to the2077 bill as a different number, but thank you very much for your time. I greatly appreciate you know you have a lot of bills so I'll stop talking.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
No problem. Thank you so much. Representative, we do have a question from Dykema
[REP DYKEMA:] Thank you, madam Chair and thank you Representative. I know2094 you have worked on this issue for many years and I appreciate um you sharing your your extensive knowledge about it2100 with us here today. You had mentioned um that the committee had reported a study out previously which you no longer recommending. But you did say that there had been numerous other studies that have been done in the intervening time. If you haven't sent those studies along to the committee at this point it would be very helpful if you would send over whatever you think would be helpful for us to take a look at.
[STANLEY:] Thanks, I will do that as well2125 as my written testimony.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you, madam Chair, Thank you, madam. Chair and thank you again. Representative, I see no additional questions from committee members. Next we'll go to representative kelly Pease please.
[REP PEASE:] [HB984]2147 Hi, good afternoon and thank you, madam. Chair and Chair, Dykema and the entire committee. I I appreciate this opportunity to testify and to give In support of H984 an act relative to Sunday hunting. These the sunday hunting rules are just old outdated blue laws. They've been around for 100 years that are passed solely on religious basis and they're one of the few that remain and most states around us have done away2179 with them, which means we lose revenue to those states for hunters that are able to Hunt the whole weekend if they go across the border. Um the massachusetts wildlife, Actually, the Massachusetts division of fisheries and wildlife have put out a briefing this last year and wildlife funding proposal because the the lack of the hunting licences which were close to 40,000 just under there in 1997 are now down to 16,700 as of 2020 is quite a decrease and they don't have the funding to sustain their operations.
So they, what they propose is one, they were going to increase fees by over2220 three times for hunters to get licenses, but they scaled that back there. Now going to phase that in over five years. Um but they also support getting additional resources from general funds and they also support filing a bill for sunday hunting because they know that's an incentive to increase the hunters managed the deer population and other wildlife population over the course of time. Um So I'm not going to go any further. I'm going to submit written testimony and I2251 know you've got a lot of people testifying so and I got to get back to my education hearing. So I just hope that the committee will vote H984 favorably out of committee and I appreciate the time today.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you Representative. I know it's a very busy day with hearings today. I've been bouncing around2270 myself. Thank you again. I see no questions from members of the committee.
Okay? We are, I don't see any additional elected officials who are signed up to testify. Um, but if anyone is here, please raise your hand now so that I can recognize you.
Okay if additional elected officials show up and want to testify, we will do our best to accommodate them.
[SEN RAUSCH:] Um we are turning to testimony from members of the public and we will first take testimony on um H 3785. An act relative to boater safety and H 1013 and act relative to the conservation of striped bass. After that we will turn to the several Bills pertaining to hunting and then the concrete bill at the end of the hearing. So everyone has an idea of how the testimony will go this afternoon. So first taking testimony on house 3785. We will have to people signed up chad hunter followed by Jamie media and I apologize if I mispronounced your name chad Hunter please.
[CHAD HUNTER (PLYMOUTH HARBOR MASTER):] [HB3875] Good afternoon. Thank you madam. Chair and members of the committee for your time this afternoon. My name is chad Hunter. I'm the harbormaster for the town of Plymouth They have been the Harbormaster for about 17 years. Plymouth is a large coastal town with over 32 miles of coastline and upon for every day of the year, keeps us very busy household serve as the chairman Of the Massachusetts. Harbormaster Training Council and we developed the standards for training for Harbour Masters have been on that council since 2009. I'd2370 like to quickly provide some testimony to support House Bill 3875 an act relative to voter safety to be known as the David Hansson act as Hard Master.
Our primary mission is to make sure people are safe, went on the water and make it back to shore. At the end of the2384 day. We aim to be proactive in this mission by educating boaters, making sure they have all their proper safety equipment and operate safely when on the water. Each year we have thousands of interactions with voters to check safety equipment, talk to them about unsafe operation or respond to emergencies. During many of these interactions, close 70-80% of the time operators are unaware of safety requirements into operational safety, while boating, we have to educate in the field2414 and correct the condition immediately. We're not always lucky enough to be proactive and go too many distress calls that could have been prevented with proper training and boating knowledge. The majority of the states have voting educational requirements in place to protect their voters.
Many states even have reciprocity accepting the massachusetts voting safety class that is now voluntary. In massachusetts, we would never allow somebody to buy a car operate on the roadways without any experience training or a licence while we do allow somebody to buy a boat of jet ski, operate a vessel with no training or experience in arguably a very dangerous environment. In closing David Hanson's tragedy hits close home close to home for me. Mr Hansen's voting accident happened in Plymouth waters. I was on the response boat that night as we searched for Mr Hansen and feel as though education might have changed the outcome of this tragic situation. David Hanson Act will provide boaters with much needed basic education and provide a safer boating community. This act will prevent others from having to go through2483 these tragic accidents. Thank you for your time. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you Mr Hunter for your testimony and your service.2491 I see no questions from members of the committee. Next we'll hear from Jamie Media.
[JAMY MADEJA (MASS MARINE TRADE ASSOCIATION):]2504 Good afternoon, um Madam Madam Chairwoman and Madam Chairwoman on the House side and through you to your legislative members. Um I would like to begin by excuse me, I am Jamie Media and I am legal counsel to the Massachusetts Marine Trade Association. The Massachusetts Marine Trade Association is a 50 year old nonprofit organization on the business of Baden. That's recreational marinas, boatyards that build boats. Um and we have been in supportive adding a boating safety bill. Excuse me enactment for a number of years. I'm also going to share that. I am former general counsel to the executive office of now. Energy and Environmental Affairs to tell you to try to show you that I understand what I'm talking about because what I want to share is why this bill is needed, but also why it hasn't passed in hopes that we can make some changes.
Um so that it does pass, it always passes this committee but then it doesn't make it further. So forgive me for speaking in what's usually left unsaid, but I think it's time to say it. Um and perhaps make some progress. Um I also want to thank very briefly of the chief sponsor rep LaNatra who inherited this bill and has worked very hard on it. Um working with me personally and others on the text since the last legislative session with her aid, Christine. Um and unfortunately a harbormaster has recently passed much respected palm alone. Um And I thank harbormaster Hunter um for what must have been just a terrible experience in in pursuing and discovering that death for um mr um Hansen uh to be brief since I don't have too much time left, I'm just going to say our testimony speaks um to the very few minor adjustments that we think would make sense.
So I want to emphasize the things that we do support. It makes total2632 sense To have an examination to show, one understands the people call it the rules of the road. Um, basic safety education. What does not make sense is a state bureaucracy unfunded to oversee the people who provide that exam. Um, as if we were headmasters of a private school certifying to each of the teachers that would take away all the free education being provided now and put a burden on the agency responsible for voting education to beef up its provisions of oversight services on the educators instead of on the exam. I fear that is why this has not gone through ways and means much less the governor's office.
If we had our druthers and there had to be more state money spent, we would plead2686 that would be spent on the harbor masters and on the environmental police officers that are desperately needed out on the water because the majority of problems are caused by drunk boating and by people not wearing their life jackets And frankly the majority of death, we have less than 10 per year in Massachusetts, which is, thank God it's2708 too many, but we have less than 10. My time is up. So I'm just going to say it's mostly small vessels, single person such as kayaks. We are in support with a few tweaks that we provide in our testimony. Thank you all and thank you also to the co chairs of the boating caucus. That's Chairman Straus Chairman Gifford and on the Senate side Chairman O'Connor Um, and I'm terribly sorry I'm looking for my other sponsor uh with the sponsors are all listed. Thank you so very much and I apologize for going over.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you for your testimony. I see no questions from members of the committee, so thank you again for your time. Okay, turning to testimony on house 1013 Frederick Jennings Please.
Mr Jennings.
Okay, we will try to accommodate mr Jennings if he is able to join us later. We are now turning to the various hunting bills and I will announce several people to testify in order. So you kind of have an expectation as to when you will be coming up. So we'll hear from the following people joseph Afonso, Christopher, burgundy, robert, barzani, jim smith and kevin Duggan to begin. So again turning to the hunting bills starting with joseph Alfonso, please
[JOSEPH ALFONSO (MASS CONSERVATION ALLIANCE):] [SB536] [HB991] [HB1024] [HB914] [HB984] [HB1015] [HB1019] Thank you very much, Chairwoman. So my name is Joseph Afonso, I'm the chairman of the co chairman of the Mass Conservation Alliance, made up of over 50,000 sports people across the state. Um We are here advocating for the passage of legislation that will enhance the ability of the mass division of fisheries and wildlife to manage the wildlife populations in our commonwealth. So we seek to expand the Hunt double areas in the state by modernizing the archery setback laws to safely expand the Hunt herbal area in the more densely populated areas of the2838 state that we have Um primary primarily within the 495 and 128 Belts.
These areas continue to report increasing numbers of negative encounters with wildlife and currently lack abundant areas for the sporting community to access these properties. Additionally, we seek to remove statutory prohibit ations on the use of crossbows, allowing them to be regulated by our2864 scientifically trained and professional wildlife managers. That's the Senate Bill 536 House Bill 991 in House Bill 1024 crossbows are a safe and effective implement can be used in areas where firearms hunting is impractical. Finally, we advocate for removing or relaxing the blue laws which have been mentioned previously in this meeting, which prevent hunting on Sundays.
House Bill 9 14 984 1015 and 19 removing or easing2899 Sunday hunting restrictions as long overdue and provide our wildlife managers. Another tool to be able to help oversee the wildlife populations in our state and also allowing the sports men and women of our state to be able to enjoy fully. They're hunting time when available. We urge the committee to2920 act favorably on these reference pieces of legislation that support our objective and enhancing the ability of mass wildlife to effectively manage wildlife within our commonwealth. Thank you for your consideration and moving2933 these important legislative priorities of the sports men and women of the commonwealth. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you for your testimony. I see no questions from members of the committee Christopher Borgetti please.
[CHRISTOPER BORGATTI (BACKCOUNTRY HUNTERS AND ANGLERS):] [SB546] [HB1025] [SB552] [SB507] Hello Senator Rogers, representative Dykema and members of the joint committee. My name is Christopher Bugatti. I live in Newbury and I'm the new England and new york. Chapter coordinator for Backcountry Hunters and anglers, also known as B. H. A. We are a north american conservation organization. That is a sportsman's voice for public lands, water and wildlife. I'm here today in support of four bills pertaining to sunday hunting. Also S 546 and act to reimburse the Inland fisheries and Game Fund and H 1025 and S 552 an act relative to hunting near a dwelling. Also here in opposition of S 507 and act addressing noise issues of migratory game hunters near coastal dwellings. Massachusetts is now among only a handful2997 of states that have yet to repeal blue laws pertaining to sunday hunting for hardworking resident sportsmen and women. This antiquated law severely limits their opportunity to be in the field and share their outdoor traditions with family and friends.
Opponents consistently devalue the contributions3014 of hunters and anglers in the commonwealth and use3017 fear to perpetuate the myth that hunters put the public at risk. The reality is hunting remains as one of the safest forms of recreation. Following between billiards and bowling and the number of accidents per 100 participants. It should3030 also be stated that injuries and non participants is extraordinarily rare. Currently massachusetts law equates the release of an arrow the same as discharge of the firearm. They're not the same. S552 in H1025 would decrease the setback of archery hunters hunting from a tree stand to 250 ft or approximately 83 yards a safe and still considerable distance from any occupied dwelling. This small change would dramatically increase opportunity on land where it already is permissible to Hunt we believe S 546 is an important step in conserving and protecting the state's public lands, waters and wildlife by reimbursing the Inland Fisheries and Game Fund for free licenses that the division of fish and Wildlife are mandated to provide for qualified residents.
This funding would support the great work already being done by the division and help improve the long term solvency of the fisheries and game fund for the benefit of all residents and visitors to the commonwealth. Finally, we are in opposition of S507 as it is a blunt and shortsighted piece of legislation aimed to address a perceived issue in a small community, which in turn would have ramifications along the state's entire coastline. State and federal regulations pertaining to the hunting of migratory birds are based on a scientific, based on scientific study and research. The activity is highly regulated and monitored by the state, environmental and local police. The existing setbacks are more than adequate to ensure the public safety and well being. Thank you very much for your consideration and be happy to answer any questions the committee may have SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
right on time. I see no questions from members of the committee. Thank you very much for your testimony. We'll hear next from robert Barzani, followed by Jim smith, kevin, Duggan, Joey, leclair, Brendan, Murnane and Mark Dalkowski,
robert Barzani, please.
[ROBERT VERZONE (CARVER SPORTSMAN'S CLUB):] [HB914] [HB984] [HB1015] [HB1019] [SB536] [HB991] [HB1024] Good afternoon madam Chair. Um I'd like to3160 thank you and the committee for the opportunity to present this testimony for you today. I am just saying as the vice president of the Carver Sportsman's Club. Carver Sportsman's Club is one of the member clubs of the Plymouth County Legal Sportsmen. We support the testimony of both the Plymouth County League and the massachusetts Conservation Alliance. Our membership believes it is time to seek solutions to the problems of wildlife slash human conflicts in the more densely populated reasons of the state. We need to act now to keep wildlife and balanced with their surroundings to prevent habitat degradation populations of deer, geese and fur bearers are approaching levels where negative impacts will become commonplace.
We support legislation that will improve the ability of mass wildlife to manage wildlife populations. We encourage the Legislature to take steps to modernize archery setbacks. All right. Your equipment does not require the same setbacks as firearms. Senate 552 reduces archery setbacks from 500 ft to 250 ft reducing setbacks is safe and will increase the hunt herbal land without impacting safety. We know with pride that there has never been a reported incident of an archer injuring a non hunter in massachusetts, we support Senate 536, House 991 and House 1024, which legalized crossbows under regulations set by mass wildlife. That's why life is the proper agency to regulate the implements of hunting.
Modern crossbows are both safe, effective and illegal hunting instruments. In most states, we support House 914, House 984, House 1015 and House 1019, which removes or relaxes. Blue laws prohibiting hunting on Sundays, removing or easing restrictions on sunday hunting is overdue and will increase hunting opportunities without expanding the length of the present seasons. We urge the committee to favorably consider changes that will enhance the ability of professional wildlife managers to keep our wildlife healthy and and balanced with their surroundings. If you have any questions or the committee have any questions that will have you have to address them. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you very much for your testimony. I see no questions from members of the committee. Thank you very much. Next we'll hear from Jim3306 Smith, followed by kevin Duggan and Joey. Leclair.
[JIM SMITH (PLYMOUTH COUNTY LEAGUE OF SPORTSMEN):] [SB552] [SB536] [H991] [H1024] [H914] [H985] [H1015] [H1019] Yes, good afternoon madam Chairperson. My name is Jim3321 Smith. I'm vice president of the Plymouth County League of Sportsmen, which represents over 19,000 sportsmen and women in the Plymouth County area. Our members support increases in the hunting license and permit fees last year and the membership is proud that the sporting community leads by example when it comes to issues of wildlife management. We support legislation to enhance the ability of the Massachusetts Division of Fisheries and Wildlife to manage wildlife populations. We encourage the Legislature to take a fresh look at several proposals that have languished for too long.
Modernizing archery setbacks, legalizing crossbows under regulations set by Mass wildlife and relaxing Sunday hunting restrictions need to be considered as a package. These proposals expand the huntable rea and hunting opportunities and densely populated areas without compromising safety or expanding the length of the present seasons. Increasingly we read of unhealthy interactions between wildlife and human populations, crop damage, rabies, Lyme disease negative bear and coyote interactions and deer collisions that don't have to be a daily occurrence in our world. Healthy populations of wildlife and balanced with their surroundings is a goal worthy of rethinking previous positions. We support S552 to expand the huntable areas in the state by reducing archery setbacks to safely expand the huntable areas in the more densely populated areas of the state.
We also support S 536, H 991 And H 1024 to remove statutory prohibitions on the use of crossbows. Crossbows are safe effective and can be safely used in densely populated areas. We support H3441 914, H 985 H 1015 and H 1019 which remove or relax archaic blue laws prohibiting hunting on Sundays, removing and easing extractions on Sunday hunting is long overdue and increase hunting opportunities without expanding the length of the present season. We urged the committee to act favorably on the above legislation. Our common objective should be to enhance the ability of wild Mass wildlife to effectively manage the wildlife in the commonwealth. Thank you very much for the time to speak and if there's any questions I'd be glad to answer.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you. Mr smith. I see no questions from members of the committee. Kevin Duggan please.
Mr Dougan.
Okay Joey leclair followed by Brendan Murnane and Mark Dalkowski3520
mr Leclair.
Okay, Brendan Murnane
mr Murnane.
Okay. Mark Jankowski, see you. Thank you. Chairman Rausch and diaper for this opportunity to comment on the upcoming legislation.
[MARK GALKOWSKI (BARNSTABLE COUNTY3548 LEGAL SPORTSMEN'S CLUBS):] [SB546] [HB1021] [SB552] [SB536] HB991] [HB1024] [SB547] [HB914] [HB984] [HB1015] [HB1019] I'm speaking on behalf of Barnstable County Legal sportsmen's Clubs, Association of Sportsman's men and women. Barnstable County, representing more than 15 clubs about 5000 we support passage of legislation that will enhance the ability of Massachusetts Division of Fisheries and Wildlife to manage wildlife populations and fund that management in the commonwealth. We back the passage of Senate 546 which will continually reimburse in inland fisheries and game account from the general fund for all losses of revenue from, for any fishing or hunting licenses provided at a discount or any license is provided free of charge. Also we support House 1021 which would simply insert language Into Mass General Law 131 Section 68 that allows hunting of coyotes with artificial light as is currently allowed for raccoons and possums.
Further, we support expanding huntable areas in the state by modernizing archery setback laws to safely expand the huntable area in the more densely populated areas of state under Senate 552. Additionally, we seek to rebuts that very prohibitions on the use of crossbows, as has been previously mentioned, to allow them be regulated by professional managers. Those are Senate 536 House 991 and House 1024 crossbows are safe, effective. It can be used in areas where firearms hunting isn't practical again has been mentioned. We currently have a archaic New England states that have without incident allowed presses to Hunt with crossbows for a number of years.
Lastly, we advocate removing relaxing are the archaic blue laws which prevent hunting on Sundays. Those of the Senate 547 House 914, House 984 House 1015 and house 1019 removing easing the Sunday hunting restrictions is long overdue, increase the opportunities without expanding the length of the president's season. We urge the committee to act favorably on the above reference legislation, support the objective of enhancing the ability of mass wildlife to effectively manage wildlife and fund management of wildlife in the commonwealth. Thank you for consideration. Moving these important legislative priorities for the sportsmen and woman of the commonwealth3706 available for any questions if anybody has any. Thank you.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you for your testimony. I see no questions from members of the committee.
Okay, the next group of people testifying on these sets of bills are Stephanie Harris, Alison blank and Elizabeth Magner. Stephanie Harris please. Yeah,
I don't believe that Stephanie is able to make the testimony today so I can kick it off for us. But thank you. Fantastic. Go ahead please. Um
[ALLISON BLANCK (ANIMAL RESCUE LEAGUE OF BOSTON):] [HB913] [SB554] [HB1016] [H1022] [SB547] [HB1023]Thank you madam. Chair thank you to Chair Dykema as well and other members of the committee. My name is Allison Blanck. I am director of advocacy for the Animal Rescue League of Boston today will be testifying in opposition to several bills. H 913, S 554, H 1016 and H 1022. These bills in various forms Seek to weaken protection secured by the voters in the 1996 Wildlife Protection Act or Question one The Wildlife Protection Act generally prohibits the use of body gripping traps, often called Connor bear traps. These traps, while referred to as quick kill traps are not humane, they frequently fail to quickly kill animals that3787 are caught in their grips.
Animals stuck in these traps understandably panicked, often resulting in more severe injuries, they can self name in an attempt to free themselves. Animals suffer for a significant time frame during which they are endangered predators and the environment. These traps are also indiscriminate despite the fact that these traps are illegal. Our law enforcement and field services divisions unfortunately received a number of calls a year regarding both wildlife and companion animals who have been killed or injured by these traps. Current law does allow for limited use of these traps, provided that there is a3819 threat to health, human health and safety. This process is tailored to provide an opportunity to address the threat, allowing localities to issue permits based on specific circumstances for limited time frames requiring justification for continued use of these devices.
We believe that the current process is an effective balance. Wildlife human conflicts do happen, but trapping of problem animals does not solve the underlying issues, selective trapping can result in other animals moving into the area and continuing or increasing problems. Um One of my colleagues will address some of the avenues that can allow humans and wildlife to3852 coexist. Um I will close by briefly commenting on S 547 and H 1023 which we oppose these bills would open up a number3860 of provisions in the law regarding carrying firearms while hunting and allow for moose hunting. We oppose the expansion of carrying firearms while hunting as3867 it could make it difficult to enforce hunting violations.
In addition, we also oppose the repeal of the ban on moose hunting population estimates do not show a need to reduce the population. The most common threat from most human populations is motor vehicle collisions. While serious across the country. Other states, including those substantially higher, most populations have taken driver education related measures to address the issue at hand. In addition, we also oppose repealing the ban on Sunday hunting. My colleague over at the MSPCA will speak in detail on on this issue. Thank you. And we urge the committee not to advance these bills.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you for your testimony. I see no questions from members of the committee. Uh we'll go to Elizabeth Wagner please. Mhm. Thank you.
[ELIZABETH MAGNER (MSPCA):] [HB1019] [HB984] [HB1015] [H914] [HB1023] [SB547] Hi Um Rebecca Rausch and Dykema Chair and members of the committee. Thank you for hearing my testimony today. I'm an animal advocacy specialist at the MSPCA and I'll also be submitting written testimony. I'm testifying today in opposition of several bills filed this session that would either in part or in whole repeal the statewide ban on Sunday hunting. Uh these bills are H 1019, H 984, H 1015, H3946 914, H 1023 and S 547. When these bills are introduced, which they are year after year.
We not only hear from our members who are concerned about animals, but for many other Massachusetts' residents as well who engaged in outdoor activities like taking family hikes, bird watching, horseback riding, trail running, mountain biking, just to name a few for these Massachusetts' citizens Sundays are the one day of the week when they know they can enjoy the outdoor and wildlife related activities without worrying about potential conflicts with hunters and unfortunately conflicts can and do happen in 2017 errant shots from hunter firearms on two separate occasions, damaged vehicles and Kingsborough. In 2014. In Barnstable Hunter mistook a man and his dog for a herd of deer and shot him in the neck back in hand. In 2011 a woman was shot when her dogs were mistaken for Deer in Norton.
And in 2010 a high school runner was shot in the leg and Mattapoisett Massachusetts is4002 the third most densely populated state in the country. If we had hunting on Sundays, you can only imagine how many more tragic hunting4011 conflicts we potentially might see. Additionally, hunters in Massachusetts represent just 1% of the state's population, 99% of the state does not hunt and yet non consumptive wildlife users share 50% of the weekend and six out of seven days of the week with hunters. You may hear from some folks on the other sides of these bills that point out that note that hunters only have half the weekend to4031 hunt And so if they work full time 9-5 job during the week, they have just half the weekend To this, I would just note that hunters again are 1% of the population and they have half the weekend and six out of seven days of the week to hunt.
Further 86% of Massachusetts residents support a ban on Sunday hunting and also non hunting nature users not only outnumber but also outspend hunting constituencies, data from the US Fish and Wildlife service tell us that they do so by almost 15 times. So given all of this information especially now when Mass,4066 wildlife and DCR are opening new hunting opportunities across the commonwealth. Sunday should be protected as a Day the one day of the week when residents of the commonwealth4074 can enjoy our natural resources free from conflicts with hunting activity or from worry about such conflicts. Thank you so much for hearing my testimony and um thank you again. Thank you.
[RAUSCH:] I actually I have a quick question for you. You mentioned a statistic um with regard to public support or opposition to Sunday hunting.4095 Could you just refresh my recollection as to what that statistic was and where you where that came from?
[MAGNER:] Sure. Yeah. So that came from a survey that was let me just Mhm I do have the answer to that. Um It's just another document here.
[RAUSCH:] You can also submit it in writing if it's not you know accessible at the moment.
[MAGNER:] Okay I don't have it right at my fingertips but I will definitely include those details in the written testimony that we have all the specifics about the survey.
[RAUSCH:] Fantastic.4132
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you very much. No further questions from members of the committee. So thank you again for your testimony.
Okay4141 we will hear next from joseph4145 mullen peter bernard and William apgar,
joseph a mullen.
Hey madam. Chair, am I coming through? Okay, you are, we can hear you perfect, thank you.
[JOSEPH MULLIN (CONGRESSIONAL SPORTSMEN'S FOUNDATION):] [SB546] [HB914] [HB984] [HB1015] [HB1019] [HB991] [HB1024] [SB536] [SB547] Good afternoon madam. Chair Chair, Dykema and honourable members of the Joint Committee on Environment, Natural Resources and Agriculture. My name is Joseph Mullen from Grafton Massachusetts and I'm the Northeastern States assistant Manager for the Congressional Sportsmen's Foundation. There are a number of bills I'd like to address today, um but with respect to your time, will focus on just one this afternoon and submit supplemental materials. After this hearing, I'm an avid resident hunter and angler and with this in mind, I would like to express my full support for Senate Bill 546 securing the necessary funding for the Division of Fisheries and Wildlife ensures4191 the sound conservation of the commonwealth, fish and wildlife and their habitats.
If there's one thing that hunters and non hunters alike should agree upon, its the shared interests of seeing our natural resources flourishing at sustainable levels. And the curator of this goal is the division During the turn of the 20th century, the unregulated and unchecked harvesting of animals of many of our nation's game populations in dire positions. We're talking about some of the iconic American species such as elk bison and whitetail deer were on the verge of extinction. Hunters immediately recognized the risk of losing their sporting traditions and organized to enact rules and regulations governing the harvest of wildlife ultimately forming what developed into our modern state fish and wildlife agencies. This also led to the establishment of the licensed structures to fund these agencies, as well as the passage of the Pittman Robertson Act.
As effective as this method is the issuance of free licenses takes a toll on state fish and wildlife agencies bottom lines unless they are able to recoup the losses through reimbursements. While free and discounted sporting licenses are an honorable way of recognizing individuals. They detract valuable, much needed conservation dollars from the state agencies. For this reason, it is not only advisable but essential that Senate Bill 546 receives your support and provides MassWildlife with the financial security to4274 continue providing the many resources that it does as an avid sportsman. I've been fortunate enough to Hunt in various states throughout the country.
Coming back to Massachusetts, it's glaringly obvious how well MassWildlife does with upholding its conservation driven mission and supporting a number of opportunities for the state's sportsmen and women are stocking programs are4292 arguably the best in New England. We have some fantastic educational field programs that are offered throughout the year reimbursing the division for funds lost to free licenses will ensure that these opportunities remain in place. Once again, I'd like to reiterate my support for Senate bill 546. I would also like to express my support for the following bills as well, Sunday hunting, House bills 914, 984 1015 and 1019 crossbow authorizations, House bill 991 1024 and Senate bills 536 And the Massachusetts Outdoor Heritage Act. Senate Bill 547. I thank you for your time.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you for your testimony. I see no questions from members of the committee and I apologize for the typo on your name in my list.
Thank you again for your testimony and your time. Peter Bernard, please
[PETER BERNARD (BRISTOL COUNTY LEAGUE OF SPORTSMEN):] [HB991] [HB1024] [SB536] [SB552]Thank you, madam, chair and members of the committee. Um I am Peter Bernard from Swansea and I'm the president of the Bristol county League of Sportsmen and of the Somerset sportsman's club. Uh I could say I'm representing everybody down in Bristol county. But in this case today I want to tell you my story for uh the crossbow bills that you've heard about. Um H991 H1024 in Senate 536. um 10 years ago I was injured at work and suffered a shoulder injury. Um I can no longer pull back a regular compound bow. So I go to a crossbow < In Massachusetts you can't use them. So I've gone to Rhode Island. I give Rhode Island, my money, my license money, my fees to use my my4417 crossbow in a different state. Um I wish this wasn't the case. Um There are a medical exemption that I can apply for through fisheries and Wildlife and there's a form to fill out and I have to get my doctor to sign. It sounds very easy.
My doctor is anti hunting. You will not sign it. So that leaves me stuck. And so therefore I go to a different state. Um Again I wish that would just wasn't possible. And I can I ask that the committee Forward one or all three of these bills ah for for the crossbow usage in the commonwealth. Um I also want to speak4466 on the Senate 552 which is the archery setback uh in my area of town of Swansea. Um I have a great area to Hunt Um It just takes that setback from 500 ft from a dwelling in use to 250 ft4486 from a dwelling in use um 250 ft with a bow is perfect. You don't need to go 500 ft 500 ft was meant for firearms. Um So I'm asking that the committee favorably passed this bill as well or the archery set back from an elevated tree stand. Thank you very much.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you for your testimony. I see no questions from members of the committee.
Next we'll hear from Williams apgar. And then laura Hagen.
[WILLIAM APGAR (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] Good afternoon madam. Chairman Committee, thank you very much for the opportunity to speak. My name is William Apgar from Medway Mass. North Norfolk County. Um I'm here to speak on behalf of all the sportsman in the state of Massachusetts. We have had to stop hunting every Saturday. Mhm. I also have submitted written testimony, restrictions on Sunday hunting4556 are an impediment to reasonable access, limiting the opportunities of working hunters and restricting hunter recruitment and retention, recreational users and non hunters are likely to testify against Sunday hunting because they prefer one day a week during the regular deer season. There are no guns in the woods, I can testify today. There are very few things in the woods.
I've been in the field repeatedly and I know the first Saturday on public land of the shotgun season. The only individual my party ran into was the actually the sportswriter from first state Fish and Wildlife. Um I think a lot of my friends from other states would like to hunt in Massachusetts have one in New4612 Hampshire avid hunter, but he's taken back by the can't4619 really spend the weekend here. State biologist regularly deer hunting to support the health of the deer herd and help control nuisance populations of deer. On December 2021 observed 30 dear together in the Blackstone River National Heritage Park, this event demonstrates there are too many deer in Worcester County where hunting is carried out with less restriction than in more easily region for our commonwealth, Sunday hunting would provide a much needed increase in the hunter population and increased hunting hours dramatically.
Sunday hunting is the answer to creating a better environment for wildlife. The number of deer in eastern Massachusetts is approaching 25 per square mile is reaching overwhelming overpopulation in order to continue the practice of using regulated hunting as a way of control. Dear bear and other animal populations. The cumulative youth to hunting must continue. Sunday hunting adds 100% more time to teens hunting opportunity. Children have much tighter schedules decades ago when whole towns took opening day of deer season off from school Massachusetts businesses would benefit greatly from hunters being able to4697 dedicate entire weekends to the sport hotels and restaurants that have been badly impacted by the pandemic media. Additional business Sunday hunting will provide. The businesses are located in both reaches for Sunday hunting would benefit most. Thank you for your time madam. Chairman
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
thank you for your testimony. I see no questions from members of the committee, laura Hagen, please.
[LAURA HAGEN (THE HUMANE SOCIETY OF THE UNITED STATES):] [HB1021] [HB913] [HB1016] [HB1022] Good afternoon Chair Rauschh and Chair Dykema My name is Laura Hagen and the Massachusetts State Director for the Humane Society of the United States. I wanted to first provide testimony opposing the section of house 1021 that would allow coyote to be spotlighted. This is where hunters use4746 a beam of light to temporarily blind and paralyzed the target animals. The spotlight makes the animals an easy mark giving the hunter and unfair advantage and violating the core hunting ethic of fair chase. The practice also creates significant public safety risks for neighbors and landowners who could easily be injured or killed4765 by the presence of coyote hunters working at night with or without lights.
Furthermore spotlighting will neither eliminate individual problem coyotes nor manage coyote populations and I respectfully request that the committee opt against expansion of this archaic law. I also wanted to provide testimony opposing House 913,4786 House 1016 and House 1022 which would return the broad scale use of a variety of cruel and indiscriminate body gripping and snare traps in the interest of not repeating other comments offered today, I wanted to spend my time highlighting the great success of the use of water flow devices as alternatives to trapping here in Massachusetts trapping is a temporary solution to beaver conflicts when animals are trapped, the habitat remains good beaver habitat and the same property is inevitably repopulated with new animals, leading to an endless cycle of trapping and killing.
Alternatively, Alternatively, Water flow devices are an affordable humane and years long4824 solution that not only prevent the recurrence of flooding but allow the beaver to remain and accordingly4830 provide a vast array of ecosystem and environmental services. A 19 year case study of the Billerica Mass Beaver Management Program compared the annualized cost to the community of water flow devices versus trapping and killing beavers Billerica maintains 55 total beaver management sites with 43 of those are almost 80% maintained nonlethal Lee with water flow devices. The almost two decade long case study demonstrated that nonlethal beaver management at the 43 sites in the town says bill record taxpayers, almost $8,000 per year over beaver trapping.
In addition, the use of flow devices has prevented the continuous trapping of 38 beaver colonies that create approximately 380 total wetland acres in Billerica that would not exist if the beavers were trapped. And this is just in one town, Bevers solutions, A Massachusetts' based company has installed water flow devices and more than half of Massachusetts communities and regularly works with the mass Department of Transportation, public works and the highway departments on non lethal conflict resolution. Importantly, while the Wildlife Protection Act discourages recurring trapping4905 with body gripping traps, it does allow them to be used to resolve health and safety threats and to be used at sites where alternatives have not worked in closing the Wildlife Protection Act works as it is. It allows Mass residents to get the relief that they need from beaver conflicts and I respectfully request that the committee declined to report these bills favorably. Thank you.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you for your testimony. I see no questions from members of the committee. Miss Hagen is the last person I had on my list signed up to testify on the various hunting bills. Is there anyone else present who would like to offer testimony on4941 this set of bills on today's docket?
Okay, seeing none. We will move to the crumbling concrete legislation. We have over 30 people signed up to testify on this. So I'm going to thank you in advance for keeping your testimony to the three minute limit. We'll4958 hear from the following people first, Michelle legless E and Stephen policy, then we have a panel on tax abatements Justin Matthew Ernest Magnin Shannon gagan in um and then a panel on seller disclosures with keith, Cloudier and Michael Bartsch, so we'll hear from Michelle and steven luke policy first please.
[MICHELE LOGLISCI (MASSRACF):] [SB548] Hello, thank you for the opportunity to testify today, I do appreciate it. My name is Michelle Loglisci. in months in Massachusetts. I'm an affected homeowner and founding member of the Massachusetts residents against crumbling concrete. The stage is that all homeowners with the crumbling foundation face include discovery, denial, realization, devastation, outrage and action. Discovery happens in many different ways. Some, no, they have J.J. Mottes concrete from Connecticut, some have no idea but see the suspect cracking, some have tried to buy homes but found this through inspection, yet others have bought one of these homes because they opted for no inspection in Northern Worcester County. They5027 have just learned about this issue within the past year and the numbers are5030 growing.
The The concrete is likely from a second source in Massachusetts source denial is a place every affected homeowner visits when you learn that your home is now worth little to nothing. You find ways to be okay to feel that maybe your house isn't affected but it's not reality and it's not productive, it's simply a coping mechanism when you realise denial isn't an option, then devastation hits hard, hearing homeowners stories is heartbreaking. For example, The families who lost a5060 home to the 2011 tornado only to find a new home they built or bought has a crumbling foundation. Now they have to face another natural disaster.
But this time without recourse without insurance and without a place to turn, there's a woman who used her life savings to buy her home, lost her job to COVID tried to sell but inspection discovered a crumbling foundation and now she is stuck with a home she can't afford and can't sell still another family with medical issues who need to downsize said to me, I should never have tested then I could have sold my house outrage happens when you find out there is no recourse with the suppliers and there's no insurance coverage. Tell me me why the foundation of a5101 home is uncovered. The part that supports everything else that is covered To make matters worse, insurance companies were allowed to change collapse coverage to only an abrupt collapse and if you don't5112 mitigate then it's still not covered. Very few can afford to mitigate are quote was $263,000.
We have nowhere to turn but to you Which brings us to action in 2018 I researched and found other affected homeowners, we met informed Iraq. We've held two forums started a Facebook page and website advocated with our legislators to bring education to all involved. We've talked with building inspectors, home inspectors, realtors, bankers in the media, there's no way people should not be aware of this issue. Homeowners are hesitant to come forward because it's difficult to admit that your home is worthless. Some realtors are even telling sellers not to test not to discuss the issue because then they can't sell the house. This map behind me shows towns known to be affected with more added frequently in the areas closer to Connecticut we expect at least 2000 homes to be affected months and alone had approximately 1000 homes built in the 1983 to 2015 era J.J.5173 Mottes had at least a one third market share In northern Worcester County so far affected homes ranged from 1995 to 2002, but we don't know how many more years will be affected since the source is still being identified.
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If you could wrap up, please almost done.
[LOGLISCI:] This can't be ignored. If the state of Connecticut, Canada and Ireland can help their affected homeowners then mass should to and move this legislation forward5202 as a priority. Thank you for your time.
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Thank you very much. I see one question from chair Dykema
Thank you madam.
[DYKEMA:] Thank you madam Chair and thank you Ms. Loglosci I know you have been an incredible advocate, passionate advocate for this cause for some time. I was really interested in your comments about homeowners insurance. I would, you know, owning a home, I would assume that my homeowners insurance would cover something like this. Can you provide a little bit more information about what you heard from on the insurance companies and why they declined to cover this?
[LOGLISCI:] Well, um actually, if you look at your policy, if you pull out your original policy, not the annual renewal notice, um you will see that Massachusetts policies don't cover foundations. They listed right in that. Um I did that research with ours and I'd be glad to send that to you in writing. Um and then5259 in six months prior to us finding out that we had this issue, our insurance company changed our policy to only cover the abrupt collapse. Um and then if you don't mitigate the reason for the abrupt collapse, then you're still not covered. I have that in writing. I have it highlighted. I can certainly send that to you as written testimony. to you as written testimony.
[DYKEMA:] That would be greatly appreciated.
[LOGLISCI:] Will do.
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You're welcome.
Thank you madam. Chair any other questions from members of the committee?
Okay, seeing none. Thank you again. Mr policy for your testimony.
I just mentioned that I do have someone captive panel that wanted to talk about the captive insurance company and they weren't mentioned. Um and I want to make sure that we5307 do get them 30 people signed up to testify. We will get to everyone in turn. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you Stephen legacy.5318
[STEPHEN LOGLISCI ((MASSRACF):] [SB548] Hello and thank you for this opportunity. My name is Stephen Loglosci I'm from months in Massachusetts and my parents house has a crumbling foundation. I've been following this issue for years and often hear testimony from affected homeowners, but rarely hear from people in a5334 position such as my own. Long before my parents were aware that they were affected by the crumbling foundation issue, I had expressed my interest5341 in buying their house when they were ready to move on to their dream of spending their retirement in the house on the lake. I had always seen my parents house, which they built in 1996 as the perfect house for my wife and I to raise our son and daughter in, much like my parents, raised my brother and I in that very same house.
5361 I have have many memories in that house, memories of countless thanksgiving spent with loved ones, some of which have since passed away memories of family cookouts, celebrating everything from birthdays to mother's day, to father's day and even graduation parties since I was a teenager, I knew of, my parents plan to eventually sell this5380 house and buy a retirement home on a beautiful lake. I also know that nothing would make my parents prouder than to see my wife and I raise our Children in that very same house that they built and made all those memories in that hope and dream of mine came crushing down and my parents were told their house was worthless with the crumbling foundation.
This issue of compromise concrete not only affects the owners of the house, but as in our case it impacts our entire family now. Not5409 only are my parents unable to achieve their dream of living on a lake, but my wife and I are unable to achieve our dream of purchasing my parents house. As many of you are aware replacing the foundation is no easy task and it's by no means inexpensive as I describe the impact of taking on that cost of replacing a foundation creates a ripple effect that not only has a lasting effect on the homeowners finances, but also nullifies what is often a5438 person's biggest investment, an investment in a home and an investment in family. I urge you to please vote in favour of Bill S548 homeowners and their families across western and central Massachusetts are in desperate need of your support. Thank you.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you for your testimony. I'm sorry for my snow slow list on the mute button there again. Thank you for your comments. I see questions from members of the committee. Thank you for taking the time to chat with us today. Thank5474 you for the opportunity. Absolutely. you for the opportunity. Absolutely. I'd like to just take a brief moment to welcome representatives Ciccolo who has been able to join us and is a member of our committee. So next up we will have a panel on tax abatements, Justin Mafioso Ernest stagnant and Sharon gagged and then a panel on seller disclosures followed by panels on permit fees and captive. So there's that captive panel coming in short order. So first we'll take the tax abatements panel um and if any members of the committee have questions, we will take all questions from members of the panel. At the end of the panel we have three people on this panel Justin Matthew Ernest Magnin and Sharon gagan in. You may proceed in whatever order you like. I'll go first.
[JUSTIN MATHIAU (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB548] Good afternoon, thank you madam chair my name is Justin Mathiau I want to share with you the experience, I have had to date with the assessment in abatement process in my hometown. I wish I had time to tell my whole personal backstory but I'll start where the heartbreak begins. Six months ago I had a core sample on our foundation sent to trinity college for testing and it came back positive for pyrrhotite This news has been devastating to my family. I have received three quotes all over 175,000 to replace my foundation. This cost does not cover landscaping, patios flooring amongst many other things because of the way my home is constructed. Everything on the floors would need to be removed and stored.
It includes includes includes furniture, cabinets, washer dryer hot water heater bathtub the list goes on all the new siding would need to come off every wall would have to have holes cut through them for bracing and we would be out of our home for who knows how long I paid less for the home and5569 land it sits on than it would cost to replace the four ft concrete Frost walls, footings in the slab floor. After receiving this information, I reached out to my assessors and notified them of the issue. I was told I could file for an abatement in January of 2022 for the 2022 tax season. I did this last Sunday but was told it's Too late for 2021 I requested a cyclical inspection of the property instead of needing to file for the abatement and have my property correctly valued.
This request was never directly5598 answered until a couple of weeks ago when I was told the photos I5601 sent was all they needed for the physical inspection. I have six months of emails back and forth with my assessors asking what they need for information with the abatement. Their answer has been all the back up documentation. I have provided three quotes test results and photos. It is5616 not clear if that will be enough. In an email I was told due to the hot market, every home was seeing a rise in property values so my town knowingly my town knowing of my issue and having all the backup documentation did not reset my value to a lower, more accurate number And after receiving my bill this past weekend, it5638 became apparent they didn't reduce it or increase it but left it exactly the same as the previous year. Ultimately forcing me to file for the abatement. If they knew they were resetting the values, Why not address it then and save us all the paperwork. I've been told that my home still has value because I'm living in it.
Let's be clear we're not living in these homes were trapped. We cannot sell, we cannot move to change careers. We can no longer borrow against the value of our homes because even the banks understand there is zero value. If there's nothing, if there is No one in their right mind would pay the current assessed value for these Homes valuing these homes as if there is nothing wrong with them is a gross misrepresentation of these property values. Your constituents should not have to go through this added frustration to an already frustrating issue. This abatement process should be uniformed and consistent for a smoother process in every town. In Massachusetts. I appreciate you taking the time to listen. And I ask5694 that you the joint committee vote this bill out favorably so that we can see some consistency when it comes to assess values. Abatements, replacements of foundations, the, quarry standards amongst every other important item in this bill. Thank you.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Mhm.
Thank you for your testimony and just a blanket apology and empathy to everyone who has been impacted by this? Obviously significant problem. Um the other members of5727 the panel are welcome to proceed.
[EMIEL GAGNON (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB548] I will proceed if I may Madam Chair. Thank you for the opportunity. My name is Gagnon in and thank you for the joint Committee on Environment for listening. Um I'm 63 years old and in 1992 my wife5750 and I Sharon of 37 years of marriage. We built our home in 1992 and we raised three kids who are now independent young adults. All close by by all accounts. I'm a very blessed man. About a year and a half ago. It was determined through testing that our nest home is afflicted with crumbling concrete and the house is deemed worthless. At this point, the home was part of our retirement plan and this has been a devastating sucker punch to us. As far as the abatement process with me, It went smoothly, fortunately, the town of East Longmeadow had the foresight to mirror the towns of the state of Connecticut.
This is why there needs to be a consistent and uniformed process throughout our state for the afflicted homeowners. It's tough enough to deal with this monstrous problem and in addition to navigate through an abatement process with towns that do not have the information structure or incentive to assist the already overburdened homeowner through no fault of our own. We're in a situation now with nowhere to turn except for you folks. If my home were to burn down or be swept away by a tornado, I'd be covered by insurance. Crumbling concrete is not covered. Why are situation is any different than a tornado or a fire? I don't understand the fact that they are both unforeseen, naturally catastrophic losses makes them the same. Therefore, I am urgently requesting that the board approved bill S 548 because it's our only lifeline.
The estimated cost to raise my house, demolished existing foundation and rebuild Is in excess of $250,000 closer to 300,000 after we put our new landscape fence, driveway and tear our pool out. That is a great source of enjoyment. So basically I've worked my whole life since I was 14, fortunately I've never collected unemployment or had to rely on outside assistance, although I am a very firm believer of assistance of folks who need a helping hand to get started or to get back on their feet. Well, I guess after all these years it's my turn to ask for help. The effects on our lives are traumatic and the plan to retire at 65 is not going to happen and our daughters wedding in March, we wanted to help finance that considerably and that's been changed. So please place yourself in our position with no recourse except for you folks and let us some work together as citizens of this great country. Um and and try to help these residents and the growing amount of folks that are being afflicted with this. So please pass this bill and mirror what our neighbor state Connecticut has done and help us. Thank you.
[SHARON GAGNON (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB548] Hi, good afternoon, thank you for your time. My name is Sharon Gagnon and I reside at 24 Tamarack Drive in East Longmeadow Mass. In 1992 just as my husband told you, we built our dream home and biggest investment ever only to learn 30 years later that it is worthless. A few years back, our next door neighbors learned their home had pyrrhotite or what we now know as crumbling foundation. They made the devastating decision to sell for half of what their original purchase and sale was for losing over $200,000. That news was very shocking to us because we used the same builder just a few months apart, we became suspect that we may have the same problem and after months of denial, attended an informational meeting about crumbling foundation after being educated, we were certainly had it but we were very hesitant of becoming labeled and what repercussions that would have for us.
It's an awful feeling you feel as though you have done something wrong, although you know you haven't, you feel like you have been totally wrong but have6009 no one to blame and you have many, many, many sleepless nights because of COVID any progress that was being made stopped. But we got in touch with Michelle Linksy and started having zoom meetings. We were encouraged to get the core testing, but again, we were extremely hesitant because once we knew there was no going back, we soon learned there is strength in numbers and became all in to find the means to rectify this problem and obtain assistance because as you know, there's no insurance coverage and Connecticut has the president's we should6039 follow. We decided a year later to get the core testing and our speculations were correct. This was a slap in the face, a kick in the butt and we were devastated.
We chose to tell our Children but kept it from our family and friends. It took us another year to come to terms with the news and we were encouraged by our group to share and get support because we needed all we could get. Since then we have received support from numerous friends, family and neighbours.6064 When the building in Florida collapsed, we became more worried. Their problem was different, but yet the same neglect of a known problem with the concrete but the cost to repair was unaffordable. When we sit6075 in our family room watching TV we hear all the cracking and settling and it can be very uneasy at times. We know we will lose our landscaping driveway and probably our in ground pool and this is so devastating for us. We are 63 years old and we are excuse me, we are looking forward to retirement. All the work that this project entails us more than we can fathom and the cost would completely change our retirement.
6103 SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
We need your help. Please vote to pass this bill and we need to make court testing a requirement. Thank you very much.
Thank you for your testimony.
Any questions from members of the committee.
Okay, seeing none. Thank you again to the members of the panel. We'll move to the next panel on seller disclosures, keith, Cloudier and Michael Bartsch please.
Hello?
[KEITH CLOUTIER (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB548] Hello, thank you for having me. This is Keith Cloutier from Charlton. Um Mike was unable to make it. Um so one of my house is one of the ones that affected with this. Um when I bought the house, I actually had to home inspections, one was done by the seller and one was done by me. There was never any indication that there was any that they saw any problems with the foundation even though there was some cracks. Um fast forward. Um I had no choice because they were getting worse and worse as you can see that was my basement wall behind me and that was covered up by a finished basement. My house was collapsing. I had no choice but to do it during my retirement accounts and double my mortgage. I had 50 years old when my house6180 was up in the air neighbors actually came by and said, I don't want to know I'm selling my house.
Since then I've been getting out and meeting with people throughout central Massachusetts and western Massachusetts because they're scared. They want me to take a look, see what I think. So there was one house that somebody was going to be buying was almost $700,000. They wanted us to take a look at it because they were going to buy the house,6208 myself and Mike. Mike's the builder. We looked at it and just said that it was a suspect and we recommended that the core tested. They went back to the seller. So I said absolutely not. We will not core tested. So the person that was going to buy it walked away. I just saw the house sold somewhere around $660,000. So whoever bought that house bought it not knowing that this foundation on that was suspect. Myself and Michelle.
We actually reached out, we spoke to a realty group and we went out there and6244 met with them and unfortunately what we learned from them is that they are telling people do not core test do not. Do not core test your house, you don't want to know if you don't have to disclose and sell your house and people are going to get stuck with it. So I would urge the committee that even though the state is doing reimbursement on testing, please don't go buy them numbers because people are not going to do the testing because they're afraid if they test and they find out you have to remember they can't sell it, they can't refinance it and they cannot get equity line of credit because there has no value in their house. So they're very scared to open up and tell anybody even myself, I was very scared but I had no choice but to fix my house. It was either a6293 walk away and Give up everything that I put into my house which was well6299 over $100,000 or6300 pay $170,000 and drained my retirement accounts. Um and fix my house with the hope of someday maybe recovering. Thank you.
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Thank you for your testimony. I see no questions from members of the committee.
Um and thank you for informing us that mr Barber was unable to make it today. Uh We will accept his comments in writing of course. Moving now to the panel on permit fees. Bill Emrich and kelly M Rich, followed by the panel on captive Russell disappear, brad Rosencrantz, Karen Rosencrantz and Tatiana disappear.
[BILL EMRICH (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB548] Good afternoon. Thank you madam. Chair uh I am Bill Emmerich from the town of Sturbridge. Uh I am giving testimony to support Senate. Bill S 548 and I will focus on Section seven to waive building permit fees for all work associated with crumbling concrete foundations replacement. And I will also tell you a little bit of our story. Our house was built in 1985,6373 we purchased it in 1999, We began to see vertical and horizontal cracks begin to appear in the early to mid 2000s and grow worse each year. This past spring we had a structural engineer confirmed we had a crumbling foundation. He stated that in Connecticut are foundation would be considered severity class three, the most severe. You need to have your foundation replaced. It may not make it through the winter if not replaced soon, you need to have it braced.
We had core samples taken, which confirmed pyrrhotite in our foundation we made an insurance claim which was denied, we needed our foundation replaced now and we could not wait for state reimbursement and without insurance coverage, the financial impact is overwhelming. As Keith said we had two choices, the same ones, walk away or find the money. We put our future plans on hold, came up with a financial plan, we found the contractor who could do the work and we had our foundation replaced this past fall, whether we have reimbursement or not and you're going through this process. Every penny counts. The town of Sturbridge board of Selectmen strongly supported the waiving of our building permit fees.
Building permit fees vary in every town, the cost for building permit fees can range from a few $100 to two or $3,000 depending on the town's building permit fees schedule and the size and cost of a foundation replacement. Many homeowners have already paid these permit fees when they had their homes built. Now due to this hardship, they would pay these fees a second time. It's not fair. It's not right for the unfortunate families who have this hardship. Even with state reimbursement, the coverage is only for the foundation, not for rebuilding, finished basements, decks, retaining walls, walkways, driveways that are ruined by foundation replacement and cost thousands to rebuild, eliminating building permit fees will help lessen each family's financial burden. Going through this. Every penny counts. Please support Senate bill S 548 including Section seven. Thank you for your time.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you for your testimony.
I see no questions from members of the committee. Do we have another member of this panel or are we all sat on this panel?
Mhm I think we're all set. Okay. Okay, thank you very much. We will move to the panel on captive russell disappear. Tatiana disappear, brad Rosencrantz and Karen Rosencrantz.
[RUSS DUPERE (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB548] Well, committee members. My name is Russ Dupere, Um, so I had the unfortunate um, luck of being one of the first individuals in Massachusetts that ended up having the concrete issue and so I really feel this captive insurance company is extremely important. Um, for Massachusetts. So I just wanted to describe and my wife is going to get into more detail about the emotional tolls of everything. But what occurred with us is Liberty Mutual, we had a flood in our basement, the walls came down and we saw the crumbling concrete and when I say crumbling, I mean touching it would just fall apart and I was on the news a number of times doing exactly that and so there's a number of videos online where you can see my walls falling literally falling apart.
Um so what occurred is that liberty mutual allowed um did the testing for me at the time. I had no idea that maybe one of the reasons for that would be that the claim would be denied if it was pyrrhotite So after the results came back it was in fact pyrrhotite and the claim was in fact denied and that was probably the worst part of the entire experience because I had no idea. I actually thought I was fine insurance would cover it and we just have the basement replaced or repaired the more I looked into it. Um I realized6653 that although the6654 insurance policy itself appears to read that it is covered, it turns out is not covered because of an amendment that happened many years6656 ago. I think around the time when it became clear in Connecticut what the issues were.6661 So when we found out insurance wouldn't cover it, we went to the banks, the banks also told us that they wouldn't give us a loan because the house wasn't worth anything.
Mhm So what I said6673 to the bank, my wife and I as well, What do we do because we don't have my house costs 325,000 to replace the foundation. So I said, we don't have any money for that. What can we do? The bank said, well you have to pay your mortgage and you figure it out. Eventually. We got to somebody higher up in the bank that finally hit pity on us And we got $100,000 loan. The other 225,000. I received a personal loan from my parents from their retirement savings. So clearly what happens with homeowners is we're left with either foreclosing or in my situation borrowing against my parents uh retirement funds, but there really is no solution. It's either that or you have to go bankrupt or foreclose. And so it's a very shocking situation as a homeowner to be and6726 that's why the cap is so important because there is no safety net here. I mean, we're just we're left out in a situation where people have always paid their bills, can't pay their bills. Thank you.
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Thank you. All. All of the members of the panel are welcome to speak. Um and then we'll take any questions at the end of your testimony? Yes. So my wife I think is picking up my kids from school right now as a parent myself next to her.6762 Okay, well actually they're not actually in my car yet, so I might be able to talk. I
several meetings just like
[TATIANA DUPERE (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458] I apologize and I appreciate and thank you very much for taking the time to listen to us. Um, so I remember the night we came6783 home from my oldest daughter is developed soccer game and we found water flooding in the entire basement because of hot water heater had broken. Who would have thought that night would have changed our lives so dramatically. When the structural engineer from Liberty mutual told my husband and I that we may have the crumbling concrete issue like they found in the state of Connecticut. I was in shock then when he said that our house was structurally not sound fear set in there for my Children's safety. We would hear loud noises and cracking at night and we just I thought it was our house shifting little did we know is actually the foundation cracking beneath us.
6825 I was afraid that the house would collapse with my family and tied it while Mariano while my while my family was sleeping inside. I had fear of the unknown that the liberty used to homeowners insurance is used to pay for the queen and the bank refused to help us with the loan. Our house no longer have any6847 value, how we pay6848 for it off. And the cost of fixing the foundation was the same cost as putting two of my three Children through college. That's a huge financial financial loss. Saving towards my Children's future was now going towards fixing a crumbling confrontation and that was not our fault. We did all the right things all our lives. We paid all our bills on time. We6872 paid our mortgages and now that we needed to help the homeowners insurance denied to help us. The bank made us feel terrible like we did something wrong.
6882 We want to support, we did not want to foreclose, but they made us feel like we don't want to pay and that we did. I want to do that. We tried everything not support posed and declare bankruptcy and sadly we came close. It was a very stressful time in my family's life. Even my Children, they didn't know if we were able to keep our home and if we did wouldn't collapse. We had to reassure reassure our Children each day that we would be okay when in actuality we didn't know if that was the truth. Thankfully someone in the bank felt empathy for us and helped us as much as we could. So we didn't have to foreclose. And thankfully we had my in laws to help us loan the money and and not many people are fortunate enough for their families can step up and help them financially. As we were. As a lot of people, we have done.
We have a lot of debt that we wouldn't have if it wasn't for the commonwealth Foundation. We have three mortgages on our house along with the financial debt. We had many days and many nights appears stressed sleepless night and mostly worry and concern for our Children, their safety, their sense of security and homes in their future. How would we be able to pay for their college? When $350,000 of our own money has gone to lifting our house And fixing the concrete, we shouldn't have to be responsible for paying for a foundation problem. Yes, as homeowners, we are responsible for home affairs, furnaces, breaking AC units, but not a foundation issue. Foundation issues the structure of the house and that should last forever and the safety and concerns of our children was the most important thing. Thank you for taking this time. So listen to our case and consider helping the homeowners with the concrete. I really and truly appreciate it. Thank you.
. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you. Do we have the Rosenkrantz, yep.
[BRAD ROSENKRANZ (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB548]Hi, thank you. My name is brad Rosencrantz and our house was built in 2000 and eight and JJJ Mottes poured our foundation and subsequently we had core testing completed and we were devastated when the results7023 showed positive for pyrrhotite. Our taxes are abated with the town. So in7028 combination with others,7029 of course the town is losing tax revenue. Um, this in combination with the lowered home values is and will negatively impact everyone, not just those with the foundation problems. So in the broader sense, this is really a definitely a community problem. Uh, and this is very unfortunate for us homeowners with, with no means of litigation against the concrete suppliers and home builders, with insurance companies changing their policies to exclude coverage for this problem.
And banks unwilling to partake in in anyway. Um, the homeowner is stuck with total liability and no other recourse. Um, you know, as an example with automobiles, if you buy a car and you find that there are major issues with the structure engine, there are manufacturer warranties and lemon laws to cover this. Um, and so the buyer rightfully so would not be liable. However, there appears to be no such protection with homebuyers who are investing a significant amount of, for a major life purchase. And this should change as homebuyers were all expecting to receive in7101 exchange for a large sum of money home that's satisfactory and livable and therefore we rely on and hire experts to build and7111 sell our houses.
So I've been to several town meetings regarding the crumbling foundations and the first meeting I went to shocked me the most. There were about 70 to 80 or more people in attendance and I saw so many7125 attendees in the retirement age is, and I heard of some, and I imagine most had their retirement savings in nest egg, which they worked so hard for over their lifetime tied up in their home value only to watch it literally crumble away. So this is a very, very, very sad reality. Um, and so I ask you all to show great compassion for your neighbors and all those involved and passed this bill? S 548 we need to establish a captive insurance company uh like they did in Connecticut for the ultimate purpose of assisting us homeowners. Thank you.
[KARYN ROSENKRANZ (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB548] Hi there, my name is Karyn Rosenkranz, I live in East Longmeadow Massachusetts. And first of all, I'd like to take the opportunity to thank congressman Neal and senators, Gobi and Ashe for advocating and really putting a lot of time and effort into researching and understanding this problem that we're facing in Massachusetts along with our Connecticut neighbors. Um, I would really like to emphasize that the people that are facing this problem, the homeowners that are facing this problem are potentially retirees whose finances and are wrapped up in their homes, people who are approaching retirement and people that are saving for retirement and at the same time attempting to save for college educations for marriages um to support their own Children.
That's our case down the road and in the case that There is no financial support or assistance at this point, putting in $150 to $350,000 into the replacement of a foundation would be financial devastation. Um, and so I really encourage all of you and thank all of you for considering this testimony and the statements of our concerns as individuals and on behalf of our neighbors that we know have the problem and those that we don't know have the problem to really support us in being able to financially manage this. I believe that we don't know the full extent of the problem because many homeowners are very hesitant to test and get confirmation of the problem because there is currently no financial support in the replacement and financially folks are are not able to absorb that cost. So I thank you all on this committee for hearing our concerns and testimony.
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Thank you Miss Rosencrantz. We have a question from chair Dykema for one or perhaps more members of the panel.
[DYKEMA:] Thank you madam Chair, appreciate the chance to ask a question and I really want to echo um your comments earlier, madam Chair and in recognising everyone, all the families who have taken the time to be here and share their personal stories. Senator Gobi and Representative Ashe have been very passionate advocates for your cause here in the state house, but7331 I will say that hearing these stories firsthand certainly adds another level of understanding about the impacts here. Um this question maybe a little bit water under the bridge, but I'm still trying to understand um this situation with the homeowners insurance and I want to ask a question I think of Mr. Dupere, you had mentioned that there was a change that was made to insurance policies that previously would have covered this, but then post change, they did not, could you, did I understand that correctly and if so could you flesh that out a little more and help us understand exactly what happened and when.
[DUPERE:] Sure. So I'm actually an attorney as well and I deal with contract law. So I read my insurance policy and it is pretty clear it would have been covered in my opinion about you know, let's say it was 15 years ago. but it appears all around the same time that this7389 was coming to light in Connecticut, All the insurance companies added an amendment,7395 you know, on page 40 or something that said that they would not cover a slow deterioration of the foundation and so I actually went to a number of different law firms throughout the state with all the different contacts I have in Boston and all the way up to Berkshire county, there is no law firm that would take the case because of that amendment. Um, because the amendment is very clear, it's written for this issue. So the most expensive part of your house was essentially written out of the policies when this started to come up in Connecticut and really homeowners had no idea that it happened. I mean I didn't know it was an issue until about five years ago. So it's kind of7437 like the analogy I have given7439 people is, it's like a car, an auto insurance company saying well we cover your car except for the engine most expensive part of your car. We're not going to cover that, that's what happened.
[DYKEMA:] So I realized that there are a lot of legalese in my own homeowners policy and I imagine there are a lot of clauses at the end, but7456 I also had was there any kind of notification to you or did you have to sign off on that change or what is the process for making that change?
[DUPERE:] So that change probably happened before I was even a homeowner really is my guess. Um so normally what would happen is it would just be attached to the policy you get annually at the very end, there being like a new amendment, but this was such a major change. What I tried to argue with the law firms that I spoke with it is it's a change that should have been, you know, highlighted that. You know, it's it's like there's nothing in your home that comes anywhere close to the cost of the foundation. So to say we don't cover that anymore. I I went to the Attorney General's office and said it was bad faith on the part of the insurance companies to make a change like that without clear notification, but the Attorney General's office declined to investigate it further and I think other homeowners did the same and it just didn't go anywhere.
[DYKEMA:] Mhm. Very helpful, thank you very much. Thank you, madam Chair.
[RAUSCH:] Of course I actually want to follow up on this line of questioning if that's okay. Um and uh you know, I too am an attorney by a lawyer turned lawmaker by training. Um so I just want to make sure I understand the chronology. This was something that7545 was inserted by the insurance company before7549 you purchased your home. And so it was basically baked in as one of the um one of the standard terms and conditions.
[DUPERE:] Yes. And with the exception of one that I'm aware of which is Hanover Insurance which Michelle Loglisci referred to earlier, they just changed their policy a couple of years ago. So right after Michelle um right, I guess right before Michelle found out she had an issue, they had amended their policy, but Hanover was paying these claims as my understanding and then they changed their policy.
[RAUSCH:] Okay. Do you um by chance or could you put together for us a kind of chronology um about the various insurance policies and the various insurers um and kind of when, you know, when these changes happening, was that before people purchase their policies? Was that after people purchase their policies and7603 there's some kind of amendment, um, you know, if it was some kind of amendment to an existing policy, is that, you know, what was the notice of involved there, um you know, and I'd be interested in in frankly looking at that that provision um, you know, in the various different policy is and and just just to see what that languages and and I think that will help to inform my thinking on the on the bill.
[DUPERE:] Yeah, I can send you I can send you the liberty mutual one I know for sure. In my place in my case it was amended before before I even bought the house.
[RAUSCH:] Okay. Okay. Um, and as far as you know, is this now effectively boilerplate language and most if not all homeowners insurance policies in Massachusetts.
[DUPERE:] That's my understanding there was lawsuits throughout Connecticut over this issue. And my understanding is basically all the homeowners lost. There was a few early ones that got settlements, but Uh huh.
[RAUSCH:]. Okay. Um that you know the language and that, you know, in that particular clause7669 um in the policy would be helpful to see7672 um, you know that chronology if you have it or if you don't have it if it's not too much trouble to put it together for us. Um so we can consider that as we continue to assess the bill. That would be really helpful. I appreciate that. And and also frankly any correspondence you have um with the Attorney general's office with regard to um, you know, bad faith complaints.
[DUPERE:] Okay, I will do that. All right.
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Thank you very much. Other questions from members of the committee.
Okay, committee.
Okay,
Okay,
Okay,
Okay,
Okay, seeing none. Thank you to all of the members of this panel. Um we will move forward here again, more than 30 people signed up to testify on this bill. So we're checking through um Deborah McCoy, Craig Tiffany's Sue to sue to me, Excuse me? Matthew, Chang-Diaz and Rebecca Luker Paskowitz in that order and then we'll proceed from there. So Deborah McCoy please. Hi, can you hear me? We can. Thank you very much. Oh great, thank you.
[DEBBIE MACCOY (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458] Um good day to7741 the joint committee holding this public hearing. My name is Deborah McCoy and I'm testifying in support of Senate bill S 548. Although I am not a Massachusetts resident, I have been working with the affected homeowners since 2018 when I met with Michelle and Russell, two of your state's strongest advocates and supporters of S 548. Presently I'm the lead advocate for state of Connecticut. I have been advocating for six years for affected house owners, put owners and condo owners of which my son has an affected condo and my daughter has an affected house in Connecticut. What I would like to concentrate my testimony on today is consistency. Where Massachusetts has the opportunity to align with Connecticut and New York quarry standards.
I was appointed in 2019 to the working quarry group that met at the legislative office building from October 2000 and 19 through January 2020. I invited our Connecticut state geologist to this meeting for input as well7803 as having input from Ohio geologist, Nicks Gaglione and New York geologist William Kelly, who wrote the mineral industry of the state of New York 2007 seven through 2010. What do I mean about consistency? For example, in Connecticut are quarry standards applied to aggregate used in concrete, concrete can be used for damn sewers, bridges, at airports, for road constructions and to limit and your proposed legislation to only residential and commercial foundations is not consistent with New York North Connecticut.
Also and being consistent if you reviewed the markup, marked up proposed mass legislation on quarry standards that I have sent to you all in the panel, you'll see some of the changes I7851 made. For instance, the operator of any7853 quarry that produces aggregate for use7855 in concrete intended for use or sale, describing the operation plans in detail like Connecticut and New York's. The satisfactory performance add 20 years to that because it takes time to show distress and concrete, which it's a slow moving process. And Connecticut has taken 10, 15 and even 20 years to appear total Sulphur testing A through D. D, other technology deemed at least as accurate by the state geologist. Over time, ASTM may adopt the Canadian CSA Standards or they have been after they've been fully researched or ASTM may adapt their own independent standards.
If pyrite or pyrrhotite is detected, the permits may be issued subject to the restrictions. These restrictions should not be limited to7904 only residential foundations or commercial foundations should be for aggregate for concrete. Who is liable for aggregate and concrete supplied is not the contractor. The contractor orders the concrete, but it's the producers of quarries who sourced the aggregate and it's the concrete suppliers who mix the aggregate for concrete, putting the blame on the contractor and having them liable when it's the aggregate producer and concrete supplier who are most liable by making these changes to the legislation being proposed. You will not only be protecting the housing consumer from in state aggregate sources, but also be protecting from out of state aggregate sources and you will be protecting any consumer using aggregate and concrete.
It's time Massachusetts aligns itself with its sister states to have more consistency and equal protection afforded its citizens, the homeowners affected need to remediate their homes as the mitigation is put on their backs from the insurance insurers and the enormous costs are unattainable by most of the affected homeowners. Therefore, it is up to Mass to7970 help the homeowners mitigate or remediated through a captive insurance with enough of funding to achieve this goal. There are no safety nets, no consumer protection laws limiting sulfide minerals, no insurance, no FEMA, no bank loans. So it has to fall to the Mass legislation to come up with something to help the homeowners and if someone would be kind enough to ask about the numbers reported last Tuesday with our captive insurance. I can give you a brief um synopsis of that. Thank you.
[RAUSCH:] Thank you. I will encourage you to submit those numbers in writing so that we can take a look at it just in the interest of time.
[MACCOY:] Well, I just wanted to say that Tom Delnick said 230 homes were repaired. We actually have 460 homes repaired in less than three years. We actually have 760 participation agreement signed and we're close to 2000 claimants. So those are the numbers.
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Thank you very much. Any questions from members of the committee.
Seeing none. Thank you for your testimony, correct joe Finn I'm sorry if I'm mispronouncing your name, definitely8041 Stephanie something along those lines and please instruct me as to how to pronounce your last name. Okay, thank you. It's not an easy one. It's it's a dolphin. Thank you. So yeah, one of your one of your versions was pretty close. So try hard. Yeah, so so
[DACRAIG DAUPHINAIS (MACAPA):] [SB458] Thank you Madam Chair Rausch in and Madam Chair Dykema for for allowing me to testify in support of Senate bill 548. So my name is8071 Craig Dauphinais am the executive director for The Massachusetts Aggregate & Concrete Producers Association. So our association also known as MaCAPA represents the Ready mixed concrete industry in Massachusetts. Most of the concrete producers across the state are members of our association. Um prior to that I worked 30 plus years and my family's business out in Western Massachusetts as a ready mixed producer. So my life has been in the ready mixed concrete industry.
My family owned and operated a accompanied by the name of construction service, which is based out of Wilbraham Mass Um for since 1946. So we've been in the in the racket a long time. Um, so um when I heard of this, uh, you know the depres foundation out in Longmeadow, I immediately reached out to some of the local senators and reps and we brought a team together and we started talking about this because I wanted, you know, wanted to add out for them support, I wanted them to know about our association and that exists and then I worked in that area and it was, you know, very close to my heart, both on a personal level and from an industry level8133 to to try and do what I could do to help. Um, also that ended up putting me and I was fortunate enough to serve with Senator Gobi and representative Ashe on the8143 Governor's commission that studied this, this issue a couple of years ago and we actually submitted our final report, which I'm sure you have at the end of 2019 with our findings.
So,8156 um just a little bit about our industry, the ready mix concrete industry, you know, we we manufacture and produce the strongest, most durable, most resilient construction material known to man. It is the most widely used material as well. So, we live in that world.8168 So we test for everything. So, for this to happen to the Modus company down in Connecticut, This could have happened to anybody. Could have8175 happened to us in Wilbraham. I mean it did not, but it was a mineral that we didn't even know exists. Never mind noted test for because we test for everything in our industry, because of the material that we produced in the type of structures that we supply, parking garages, bridges, high rise structures. We have to operate at a very high level from the material integrity perspective. So this, you know, senator Gobi mentioned that this isn't about assessing blame.
This could have happened to anybody. What happened to the Modus company8205 in Connecticut. Um, so so to that I say that because we already have members that have become obviously have made my members aware of this. They are already testing forward without the legislation. They want to make sure that we're not putting this pyrrhotite material in fresh concrete. We certainly don't want to do that and we test for other other materials. Um, you know, based on the same thing, we want to produce the best product that we can. So we as an industry are supportive of this. We want to stay involved. We want to have been put into the legislation moving forward. There's probably a couple tweaks on the technical side that we could make. But as it stands, we think its common sense logical testing that's going to help prevent this material from getting into concrete moving forward. So thank you again for allowing me to testify and I'll answer any questions.
[RAUSCH:] Thank you for your testimony. Um, please do send along those uh, you know, tweaks here and you know, whatever your proposed tweaks are um, in writing um, so that we can take a look and follow up with any additional questions.
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I don't SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
see any questions from members of the committee, So thank you for your testimony today. Great, thank you. Okay, sue to me. Matthew baby Oz, Rebecca Luker Paskowitz followed by James dangling Velis and Shannon Boyce said to me, please good afternoon
[SUE TOOMEY: (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458] Good afternoon, Sue Toomey, Um we're8292 going to hear a lot of stories today from people whose lives have been financially ruined due to crumbling concrete. Only someone who's going through this personally can understand how truly devastating it is. My story is a little different though because it had a happy ending. The reason my story has a happy ending is because I live in Connecticut, not in Massachusetts and Connecticut has a solution for people with stories like mine, Massachusetts should to, I purchased a newly constructed home in 1995. It was my first and remains my only home after decades of improving my property and paying down the mortgage is I near retirement age.
A single crack appeared seemingly out of nowhere like Michelle testified to earlier, There are stages of crumbling foundations, just like there are stages of grief. The first is denial and disbelief. This can't possibly be happening to me. The second is anger. Why have I paid 20 years of insurance premiums only to be told there is no coverage. Why was this aggregate allowed to be used for decades with no one looking into the problem. Then finally, there's acceptance which usually comes around the time the water starts seeping into the cracks and getting into your basement, your doors and windows no longer open and closed properly and your kitchen cabinets start pulling off the walls at least that was the moment of acceptance for me.
In 2019, my help came the Captive Insurance Company set up by the state of Connecticut helped fund the repair to my crumbling foundation and they are approaching another 500 homes to date. There are a wide variety of people who have been helped young people who are just starting out in life, middle aged people who are relying on the equity in their home to send their kids to college, older people who are counting on their equity to help fund their retirement. People of all ages who got a job transfer or needed to sell their homes for8398 one reason or another who are now stuck or had to walk away. The thing that all these people have in common is that their homes and financial futures that they worked8408 hard for all their lives have been restored .Massachusetts homeowners deserve that same opportunity. I have many friends and family members who live in Massachusetts which is why I'm testifying here today.
This crisis is only just beginning their just as it is only just beginning in Connecticut.8422 Well the problem manifests on an average of 10-15 years. I can personally attest that my home had zero signs until the 20 year mark There are likely thousands of homeowners in both states that don't even know they have a problem yet because there are no visible signs. I worked for a crumbling concrete contractor. Now we8440 have traveled all over Massachusetts to look at affected homes and just yesterday looked at home in a fall since ready mix only has a usable life of about two hours. It seems unlikely that someone would get concrete from a plant that was over an hour and 15 minutes away. This is why Core testing is so important. This is no longer a centralized problem in a tiny area of both states. If you think8469 this doesn't affect those in your community, you should look at the current map of this problem is spreading rapidly and will likely continue to do so for decades to come. Thank you.
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Thank you for your testimony. I see no questions from members of the committee.
Matthew Batavia's please.
[MATHEW BARBIASZ (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458] Good afternoon, Thank you for giving me the time today to share my support for the passage of Senate bill 548. My name is Mathew Barbiasz , I'm the son of two of the affected homeowners, Michael and Susan Barbiasz of Ware. In 1993, my father and both of my8500 grandfathers started construction on what was to become my childhood home in the centrepiece of what I consider to be the most formative and cherished years of my life. I was seven years old in fourth grade when the home was ultimately finished and to this day at 35 I continue to visit my parents in the same house as it remains the focal point of numerous holiday gatherings, social events, birthdays, you name it. From the day this house was built, it has been full of friends, family and provided memories that will survive many of the visitors it has welcomed.
Roughly two months ago, my father called me with news that I considered to be among the most emotional calls I've taken since find out my late grandfather had passed. My father went on to tell me of JJ Mottes pyrrhotite and what this ultimately meant for the fate of our beloved childhood home. After a day or two spent digesting the news and gave my head around the sheer scope of the situation. I was more alarmed to find that this could be just the tip of the iceberg for8547 many towns municipalities in the state of Massachusetts as a real estate developer by trade. I'll be in California, I called quite literally every contractor vendor and third party I know that can help me shed some light on the situation as earthquakes are very prone to us out here.
Once I related my father's story, I was met with the same response almost every time a disaster of this scale must, must facilitate stay in federal help. I do not mean to use the term disaster lightly, but the cost of doing anything remotely short of what Connecticut has done with the creation of the CFSIC would be a travesty. Both of my parents have always been incredibly involved in local sports school and small business communities of where in Western Massachusetts, my father has coached in less than 12 different little league pop Warner, summer league and high school teams. My mother has been a part of the chamber of commerce, numerous sports teams to vary capacities and continues to speak today at the local bank in Were.
They are quite literally the essence of what a model citizens should be their home in the town of Were is everything to them. My parents are in their 60s and worked tirelessly their entire life to first build their dream home, then pay it off and ultimately retiring it. Not only years away from possibly retiring to learn the majority of their financial well being is quite literally worthless and by absolutely no fault of their own is devastating. I know that if the state8617 of Massachusetts does not come to their aid and the other countless homeowners represented here today, their lives and quite frankly their financial well being will be ruined kills me in closing.
I urge everyone here today that is currently not affected to consider how different your life would be. If you found out today that your house has8631 a crumbling foundation, what would this mean for your family's well being? Emotionally and financially, Would this mean no retirement, not sending their kids to college, not being able to pay medical bills to know that every time it rains snows or the wind blows the very house you live in was becoming more useless and very dangerous. I beg8658 every member of the Massachusetts Congress, to please do the right thing and take drastic action immediately again. Thank you for your time and8668 consideration of this matter.
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Thank you for your testimony.
I see no questions from members of the committee. Rebecca Luker Paskowitz please. Mhm
Hi, Hello. Sorry,
[REBECCA LUKASKIEWICZ (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458] I'm here to testify in support of Senate bill as 548 and act relative to crumbling foundations. My name is Rebecca Lukaskiewicz, my husband Paul and I built our dream home in 1998 on 7.5 acres of land in the town of Palmer. We both grew up in the town of Palmer and we were both employed by the town of Palmer as police officers Today. We8702 come to you myself as a retired disabled police officer along with my husband Paul who is a recently retired police detective after 31 years of service, both of us from the town of Palmer. In 2003 while placing a suspect under arrest. I was struck in the temple area of my head.
The result was a traumatic brain injury through many years of rehabilitation, therapy, hard work and sheer determination. I have regained many skills. I am deemed unemployable with a fifth to sixth grade level of education even though I have a bachelor of Science degree. At the time of my injury, we had two young children and I couldn't take care of them. However, we had a small greenhouse and I would spend time working with the plants and trying to remember their names, hoping to regain my memory. As part of my rehab, therapists worked with me and my husband teaching us about my brain showing us skills and techniques that I could use while working in the greenhouse throughout all of that. Together we have created a nice small greenhouse business on our property. In the mid 2000s we took out a home equity line of credit in order to build a new greenhouse.
Then in 2020 we applied to refinance our mortgage8782 and roll the line of credit into our mortgage. The bank did an appraisal of our home and the report indicated that we have evidence of crumbling foundation. The bank then required a core test which came back positive for pyrrhotite. The bank is now8800 requiring that we, that the foundation be replaced. We have received many estimates from contractors which are in the 175 to $184,000 price range. We need help. Our life was already completely devastated and altered in 2000 and three with my unexpected injury through no fault of our own and now we are facing another devastation this time. Financial also through no fault of our own. We would never be able to pay for a new foundation at this point in our lives, my husband and I are hard working people who don't usually ask for help. We're the ones who try to help everyone around us. Please support Senate Bill S548. Thank you for your time.
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Thank
you for your testimony. I see no questions from members of the committee James dangles please.
Can you hear me? We can Yes.
Um,
[JILL DANGLESIS (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458] Good afternoon everyone and thank you madam Chairwoman for this opportunity to speak. My name is Jill Danglesis. My wife and I have lived in Monson Mass for 40 years now and8869 unfortunately the short the story we have to share is all too common now. In the summer of 1992 we took a huge leap and contracted a major renovation to8880 expand our house in doing so. We replaced or added to the foundation, essentially doubling the size of our own. Years after we experienced the wall starting to crack where the old house met the new and following that I noticed the crack in the shingles in line and on the roof in line with the wall crack. It was as if the new edition was settling. Unfortunately, the problem exacerbated and grew to a point where we had a sizable disconnect appear where the old foundation met a new foundation in the garage. I have since repaired those issues but it is evident there are only a band aid for what is yet to come.
The walls in the garage continued to crack and flake away and with every rain, the wall seep and the floors become wet. It's only a matter of time in physics before we will be forced to take drastic measures. At the same time we're experiencing our problems. My sister-in-law who lives in Somers Connecticut was experiencing the advanced foundation issues. As you know, the state of Connecticut stepped up and now they have a livable home Again. We're hopeful Massachusetts will follow suit my wife and I are currently retired and living on a fixed income. We simply have no financial means to take on such an upgrade, nor will insurance cover it.8966 We have spent our entire lives improving this home to be able to provide for our Children someday. As with any major catastrophe. We did nothing to warrant or promote this and ask for your help to reconcile. Thank you very much.
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Thank you for your testimony. I see no questions from members8989 of the committee. Uh, Shannon Voice filed by Michael Barr bia's Joanne de Moore and the hammer family.
Okay. Hi, can you hear me? We can. Yes. Good. Great high.
[SHANNON BOYCE (WISER REALTY ADVISORS):] [SB458]9001 Thank you madam chair and committee members for your time today. My name is Shannon Boyce. I'm the broker owner of Wiser Realty Advisors located in Sturbridge and I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you today in support of Senate Bill 548 Uh specifically to the proposed section 231 of Chapter 175 which will allow for a captive insurance company to operate in the Commonwealth. I'm not an affected homeowner. I'm speaking on behalf of my current and potential real estate clients who may be affected by this issue. So I have already submitted my written testimony when I shared my experience working with the seller in Holland whose foundation unfortunately is affected by pyrrhotite.
My cellar is a 90 year old widower. He designed and built his home with his wife back in 1990. And last year he decided to put it on the market so that he could move down to the south shore to be closer to his children and grandchildren. Unfortunately during the home inspection process. The inspector noted, noticed the telltale spider webbing signs of pyrrhotite. Subsequent testing determined the foundation did contain pyrrhotite. The property value from my9062 sellar dropped from over 400,000 to a max of maybe 175,000 overnight. We researched every opportunity, but basically the9069 only to available to him is to lower the cost significantly to sell the property, basically walking away with nothing or pay to have this repair done and basically all of the equity in his property. Neither option was a very good option for my seller.
Unfortunately, I want to point out that making this repair doesn't increase the value of your property. Just literally brings it back up to market value where it would have been if the foundation were not an issue. So this is a significant Amount of money that these poor homeowners have to put forward and they're not really seeing a huge market increase for it. It's just bringing it back up to market. So this legislation I feel is so important to pass because you'll be offering relief to9104 2000 homeowners in central Massachusetts. And as others have pointed out, there are many who refused to test because they're just afraid of finding out they actually have this in their foundation. So it's probably even more than 2000. Unfortunately.
Um, the situation they face, as9116 many have said here is of no fault of their own. They either built or purchased the property in good faith, unaware that their foundation contained a defect that wouldn't reveal itself for decades. And currently they have no recourse, they can only hope that they can somehow find the money or find a bank who might lend to them, which many people have said here, they can't find a bank will lend to them. So they really need for you to pass this legislation to give them the relief that they need, Uh, so that they can make these repairs and live in a safe home. This is a safety issue. These, they cannot live in a home with a defective foundation. So again, um, I just want to thank you all for giving me the time to speak today and I hope that you will vote favourably on this bill. Uh, Senate Bill 548. Thank you.
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Thank you miss voice. I see no questions from members of the committee. Michael Barbie is please
Mr Barbi as
okay, Joanne M or or Domb or perhaps
hi, it's the Moore It's okay.
[JOANN DEMORE (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458] Thank you very much for hearing my testimony today. Um, I live in Rutland, which is in Central Massachusetts. A lot of what you're hearing is. Um, a lot of Western Massachusetts. However, it has seemed to have progressed out into my area. You'll be hearing from other people who are in my area as well. Um, my home was built in 2002. I bought it in 2011 because of the wonderful school district. Um, I am a single mom of three kids and last year two of my kids are now adults. So I decided, you know the markets great, let's sell the house, we're going to downsize um away some9234 money for retirement. And during the home inspection it was discovered that I had what what everybody is calling this spiderweb cracking, um, very early stages barely see it. Um Obviously the health of the equity, it was wiped out. Sorry. Um the cost of fixing is about $200,000.
Um and you have to repair scheduled to happen in March, even though it's very early stages, there is no doubt that it will crumble. So I figured we'll get it done now before any other damage you've heard a lot of other people say. Um the longer they wait, it starts to affect the interior of your home, your plaster, everything else. Um, So I guess what I would like to call attention to most is that there's thousands of homes in my area built around the same time by the same builder using the same concrete supplier. More than likely it could be very possibly have the same problems. Um since cracks don't show up until about 20 or more years, they might not even know as many people have said. So I think that moving forward this bill is so important because I see houses going up all around me, They could very possibly still still have this. Um and not no further 20 or more years. Um so I'm just asking you to support this bill for me and other families. Thank you
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Thank you for your testimony and, and I'm so sorry for, for you and for all of the people who are impacted by this issue.
Um, Heidi Hammer, Lee hammer and Jordan hammer followed by9339 David Knight, Leona, Gregoire luis memorial and Clara Rodrigues I think I'm speaking
[HEIDI HAMER (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458] Good afternoon and thank you for your time. Um, we're that we're the Hamer family getting here. We live in Wales Massachusetts in the crumbling foundation. My husband and I built our home in 1994 our dream home and we added on as we could afford to and as we could afford to and then eventually added horses for our daughter right here. But anyways, um, So we, we became aware in 2017 and confirmed that we had pyrrhotite, also known as a crumbling foundation. The only solution is total replacement at cost upwards of $250,000, which is more than we paid and for the home. Total devastation. We learn homeowners insurance does not cover foundations, something that was added in the fine print9400 several years after we took out our homeowners insurance, we go through periods of denial and disbelief.
Our home is heading to collapse and there's no responsibility or assistance for this natural disaster. Since the cost of replacement is more than the value of our home, Taking out another mortgage is not possible. As we are both in our late 50s heading into retirement or so we thought attempting to take on another mortgage is not an option. Tax abatement is an added confusion to this disaster. Since our home has lost value, we apply for a tax abatement. Our home is devalued The first year it goes from 220 to 180,000. The next year we asked to re evaluate, it goes down to 108,000. This year it increased to 180,000. Total confusion. I don't understand, but we're going back to the assessors.
We only could wish our home would increase in value. Our home is where holidays get togethers and family game nights were held Now it hosts eerie popping sounds, widening cracks in the walls and floors are constant reminders that time in our home is limited. Our front door no longer opens in wet weather, water comes into a once dry basement. In 2019 engineers anticipated 3-5 years before it's unsafe and unlivable as we head into retirement. We did not plan for our biggest investment to crumble through, no fault of our own. What happens to us, our communities, we can't sell, there9506 is little to no equity left failing foundations don't require disclosure to sell, but what kind of person does that to somebody else. I worry for future homeowners. I worry for us. I worry for our neighbors, please support and assist us I think. Thank you.
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Thank you for your testimony. Mr Hamer. Did you want to comment as well? Thank you a hard time with.
I'm so sorry. Thank you. Okay. Um Just wanted to make sure to give an opportunity. Okay, Thank you. Thank you very much for your testimony. Uh David Knight, followed by leona Gregoire and luis9554 morial. And then Clara Rodrigues
So, I'm not9557 sure. David Knight is our neighbor. He's 86. He couldn't stay here, but he recorded himself. I don't know if you want me to play9577 that or you just want to accept his written testimony.
Um I am madam Chair. I am with your with your agreement. I'm OK playing that recording. He was signed up to testify.9609 Okay? So yes, please please do go ahead and play9614 that for us. Thank you very much.
No, sorry, That's OK. Take your time. People
Jordan. I might need your help.
[DAVID KNIGHT (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458] David Knight. I'm uh I live in Wales Mass. I've been in Massachusetts all my life. I'm 86 going 87. And these people that have the cracked foundations, be helped out. They need it now. Not five years from now when they might not be here. So I thought you could help them now. Instead of just waiting and waiting like fishing, you never get they never get caught. You never catch them. So they need them. They need their help now instead9676 of five years from now.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
That's
Okay.
[LEE HAMER (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458]I'm 89 years old, almost 50, almost 90 years old. And I have lived9686 in Massachusetts all these years and I have lots of friends that their basements and their foundations are falling in and I'm very concerned about them that I'm afraid somebody's going to wait too long to help these people, which they need because other towns, surrounding towns are getting the help but not in Wales and they need this help and I wish somebody would pay attention to them when they I talk to you and send in letters and I'm very concerned that I don't want9723 to9723 see anything happen to these people before it's too late and please help them because they do need it and it's happening every day. Someone knew that their house foundation is giving in and people are using metal poles to try their, hold their basement up the house up with metal poles in their basement and that's not right. And please please help them.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you, that's it. Thank you very much.
Okay, my staff informed me that Mr Barbi is has been able to join rejoin us I believe so we'll circle back to you if you are with us now. I'm hoping9762 I'm smart enough to take the mute off.
[MICHAEL BARBIASZ (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458] Okay again, thank you madam chair for allowing me time to discuss my personal story regarding crumbling foundations and my support for the passage of Bill S 548 as you said, my name is Michael Barbiasz and9777 I live in the town of Ware My wife Susan and I began construction of our dream home here in 1993 where9784 we raised our two sons. The phrase blood, sweat and tears holds true in the homes construction. As I along with my late father and father in law, framed the house as well as9793 doing much of the finished work.9794 We are social people and throughout the years have enjoyed hosting Super Bowl parties and numerous other sporting events. We of course are biased, but in our humble opinion, we believe we've built the perfect9805 home for our family.
One of the nicest compliments we ever had came from one of our friends as we sat together on the front porch one evening, she told us that when she9817 walks into her home she immediately feels the warmth and love as if it permeates from our walls. Roughly two years ago I was in the basement looking at our electric panel with an electrician. He asked me what was going on with my foundation, although I had noticed some cracks earlier, I thought it might just be the normal settling process. He suggested I investigate crumbling foundations. After reading various articles on it, I was able to convince myself that although there were some similarities, the Kraken wasn't an area of the house that was only a small percentage of the overall foundation. I did however take note of the concrete company JJ Mottes who have been9856 implicated as a supplier of the concrete, responsible for the crumbling9861 foundations throughout Connecticut Western Mass.
By coincidence at the same time, I have been converting older VHS tapes to DVDs taken of our children as they grew up. One converted tape was of us building our new home. To my horror. I watched the video as it showed the foundation as it was being poured by JJ Mottes trucks. Fast forward to late October of this year With the local NBC affiliate Channel 22 News Filming, a University of Connecticut's engineering team performed six different core tests on my foundation walls, which would verify that9894 my home does indeed have a high percentage of the iron sulfide mineral pyrrhotite because of the three minute parameters allowed from my testimony allowed for my testimony, I will conclude that we never missed a mortgage payment nor have we ever missed a property tax payment.
There is not enough time allotted to discuss this, this,9910 but I find it incredulous that insurance companies are permitted to wash their hands and all of this. Susan and I together have built a home that has the potential to provide an attractive amount of equity that is counting on if the sale of the home is necessary at some point in our lives to be told. Now that our home and its current9934 stage is not sellable as life altering again through no fault of our own. We find9940 ourselves in an unbearable reality that unless the state and possibly federal government's assist us in rebuilding our foundations, Those of us affected have the potential to experience financial room ruined with no time to rebound. I wanted to just also mention that Sharon Gagnon talked about sleepless nights and I'm sure everyone here, I would agree that that has now become an everyday feature of our lives. Thank you very much for the time to discuss this.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you for your testimony. Mr Barbi eos, I see no questions from members of the committee.
Okay, we will circle back now to Lewis morial, Clara Rodrigues Shirley gag me uh followed by Karen Rouhani, jean, lynch and Karen Belotti.
[DIEGO MAURIAL (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458] Hello everyone. My name is Luis Diego Maurial Um thank you for allowing me to testify in support of Senate Bill S 548. I am a resident of Connecticut currently10011 in the market to purchase a home. I've been looking in the10016 northeast section of Connecticut into Massachusetts Wells area. My search for a home in10024 Massachusetts quickly10025 ended when I realized there is a crumbling concrete crisis like Connecticut. However, there doesn't seem to be any regulations to protect or assist homeowners in Massachusetts homeowners in Massachusetts are being told by Massachusetts10046 realtors not to disclose,10047 they have foundation issues when they're10048 trying to sell their homes. This is unthinkable when you're looking to buy a house10054 and basically going into a potential double10061 mortgage10061 in this case and I hope10071 Massachusetts is able to follow10072 Canada Ireland and Connecticut programs to10081 put10081 regulations in place assist residents and make it safe for potential homebuyers to consider10092 Massachusetts.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you. Do you have we've lost audio. Are you all set with your testimony or did you have more to say?
Okay,10100 I didn't want to cut you10102 off there. Thank you for10103 your testimony. Clara Rodrigues please.10104
Mhm
This Rodrigues10106
Okay, we'll circle back if she joins us later. Shirley gag me.
Miss cagney.10111
Okay Karen10112 Rouhani. Hi,10113 can you hear me? We can.
[KAREN IGNAGNI (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458]10117 Hi, my name is Karen Ignani, my husband and I10120 own a home in Holden Massachusetts. In 2013 we purchased our beautiful home which10125 was built in 2002. Our10128 plans were to stay in the home until I retired at the age of 62. A year ago we found out that our foundation had pyrrhotite and needed to be replaced. The unforeseen disaster. Put an extreme burden10140 on us both financially and emotionally. We have spoken to a realtor in the fall of 2019 with anticipation of putting the house on the market10147 in10147 2020 with the pandemic, those10149 plans were moved off the plate.10151 In October10152 2020 we noticed a small water leak in our basement. It was in an area that was partially finished by the previous owner. My husband removed10161 the two existing walls and discovered the horrendous horizontal cracking.
We originally assumed that there must have been an issue with10168 just the back foundation of the house.10170 It was not until we started searching10172 online and read about the crumbling foundations in Connecticut that we ventured forward with hiring structural engineer and proceeded with core testing. We received the devastating results10185 Christmas Eve 202010186 due to the severity10187 of that wall, which was bowing in. We made the10189 difficult decision to move forward and replace our foundation To cover10193 the cost. We drained our savings, used all of our phones and our existing home equity line of credit and withdrew funds10199 from our 401K plans. Construction began10201 in early 2021 in April. The cost of the construction was $280,000. That10206 represents 80%10207 of the purchase price of our home.
Homeowners insurance doesn't cover the cost, nor is one able to obtain a mortgage for a home that no longer has10217 any value. Once beautifully landscaped lawn that10219 we had created over the10221 past seven years was completely destroyed.10223 There are10224 days when the tears do not stop as I feel my dreams of10230 retirement fade away so we10231 can fund foundation repair that never should10233 occurred. The burden.10234 The financial burden at the age of 63 is astronomical. Mass needs to fallow suit with Connecticut and create a captive insurance for the purpose of providing assistance to affected10245 homeowners. We have yet been able10247 to confirm what concrete company pulled our10249 home. We have 47 miles10251 from Connecticut. It does not come from Connecticut. We reside. Um, there10255 were seven concrete companies and10256 two miles from our house and10258 seven miles to concrete and seven miles. It's highly likely one of those poured as another woman spoke earlier. Right now we10263 have confirmed houses in this area in Rutland and10267 holding between 1995 and 2002, there were hundreds, maybe thousands of homes in those10271 two towns built within that time frame.
We need to move forward to mandate the testing of for pyrrhotite and concrete. I also want to say that we tested our new foundation before we10282 brought the house10284 down. So when they pour the footings, we sent10287 it out because10289 we didn't know10290 if we would be pouring another foundation with concrete. We also had a denial from our Insurance companies will be more than10296 happy to send it10297 in and10298 is a 20 page letter Stating why they denied us. They also videotaped dozen came to our home and asked us questions and outright said we think your house10310 wouldn't collapse for 16 more years plus and then denied us. So please, we all need10314 assistance. Everybody says you are great.10319 We are grateful that we have the capacity to tap into our funds and get the repair work done. So many people don't, but10347 we10347 are now10348 left with a $250,000 mortgage. Thank you for listening to us10352 and please I urge10355 everyone to vote this bill out favorably.
[RAUSCH:] Thank you for your testimony. I do welcome you10360 to send that letter in from the insurance company if you10364 are comfortable doing so.10365
[IGNAGNI:] Absolutely.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
thank you. Okay, Jeanne lynch followed by10367 Karen Belotti, Angela, Alain, Richard, moriarty and Garry bello
10371 jean lynch.
Yes
10374 Miss lynch or perhaps10375 mr lynch.
Okay, Karen10377 Bellotti,
[KAREN BILOTTI (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458] Thank you for taking the time to hear my story today.10384 On June 1st , 2011 my husband Sam and I lost our home and most of our possessions to the tornado that swept through a hometown of10394 Munson as devastating as that was And for reasons for having10397 to do with the emotional well10399 being of our Children. We decided to purchase our current home rather than rebuild10403 our devastated lot prior10405 to purchasing our current10406 home. We did everything right. We had um inspections done that10410 revealed no major issues and certainly no signs of cracking or10415 splintering in the foundation. We proceeded with the purchase of our dream home. And although we're in our10422 40s, we suddenly found ourselves starting10424 over with a new 30 year mortgage. Sam and I were10429 hopeful that the10430 worst was behind us.
It was not until nine10434 years later that we started to notice the first signs of10437 cracking10439 in10440 our foundation and suspected that we10442 might have a problem. Following10445 a visual inspection of the foundation. In May 2021 core sampling10448 was scheduled. Those core samples were10455 analyzed in August 2021 and confirmed the presence of pyrrhotite10461 in our foundation.10462 I10463 can't even begin to describe how devastating it is to hear10468 that your house is literally crumbling underneath. You. Living through one natural disaster was enough. Now living through a10474 second natural disaster and having no help from your insurance company is just not fair. Living in10481 a house that's worthless is a punch10484 in the gut when10485 you're paying your mortgage that10486 you're looking forward to10488 the investment as your retirement. The10490 estimated cost to replace our foundation is almost $250,000. A quarter of $1 million. It's unfathomable. That's well in excess of the equity that we have in our home. To our further loss and damage my family will be displaced from our home for10506 about 2-310507 months that it will take to replace10510 the foundation.
That figure also doesn't include the damage to the landscaping art pool10515 and other things that will be damaged during the10518 repair. My husband and I were now in our 50s, we have significant equity in our property that we can no longer access and are most likely going to forfeit. Like most people, our dream of one day is being able to retire10535 is largely contingent on being able to sell our home and realize the10539 equity. This is no longer a possibility for us. Additionally, we have two children in college, one of whom10547 is still a freshman. We're no longer able10553 to access the equity in our home10556 as we originally planned to help with10560 our children's tuition costs as10564 no10564 lender will accept our home in the current condition as adequate collateral. So my husband and I are faced with a very difficult decision, continue to pay the mortgage on a home that will never be able to be sold10585 or allow our lenders10586 to foreclose. Neither of these is an acceptable option.10590 In10590 my opinion, we need your help. We're good people, we've done everything right and we basically have nothing. Please help us. Thank you for your time and your10601 consideration.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
I'm so sorry, thank you for your testimony and for your bravery and sharing your story today. Mhm Angela Elaine please.
[ANGELA (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458]10613 Hi, my name is Angela. I'm from Munson Mass and my10616 house has crumbled foundations. I bought10619 my house just two years10621 ago because of employment, I've always been a single parent.10625 So I had to live10626 where my work10627 was. I was not from the surrounding area. Therefore, I had zero knowledge of this crumbling foundation or pyrrhotite problem affecting the10637 area. The person who sold me this house was the real estate10642 broker, real estate agent and owner of the house. Mhm He knew what he was selling me. He wanted to dump his the problem on my lap. He signed all10660 disclosures stating there was no structural10662 damage to the house.10665 The house was built in 94. It's a new house. Who would think there is a problem with10673 your foundation.
During my inspection. Some spider cracks were noted. My agent representing me who was from this area10680 in my10681 home. Inspector neglected to tell me about these crumbling foundation problems. These are all licensed individuals that I trusted. Who's10687 watching them. They10689 all failed me. The state of Massachusetts allowed this company from Connecticut to use10694 this10694 toxic chemical in my foundation. The town of Munson. The inspector approved this. Who protected me. I'm asking again, Who protected me now? Who's going to take the responsibility? I discovered crumbling foundation when I tried to sell my home in October 2021. I lost my job. I needed to10714 downsize. I wanted to tap10716 into the $100,000 that10717 I put down in my house. I10719 couldn't.
The buyers hired a very experienced home inspector who had10726 been working on some of10728 these houses in10729 Connecticut. He did his job. He advised them to walk. When my realtor called me the next morning, I think I had a stroke the devastation. I I could not fathom.10739 After catching my10740 my thoughts, I immediately10742 told my real to take that house off the market.10745 It was unsafe. She wanted to keep it listed. She said, well it10751 hasn't been confirmed. This is10752 the second one. These relatives unfortunately are concerned. They're turning10754 their back on. This major problem. I10757 have10757 lost my life savings.10758 I'm 61. I can't10759 get a job.
They don't10761 want to10762 hire me in my career. I will10766 never get a loan from10768 the bank to repair my house because I don't10770 have a job. It's going to cost over $200,000 for me to repair my house. I've been here10777 two years. I don't have10778 the money. I don't have the money to repair it. What do I do?10782 Walk away destroyed my credit10785 That I have worked for 34 years. I've10788 owned homes, never missed a payment. The entire10794 system failed me. My10795 house is not safe. It's not saleable. I10798 need your help. I've never asked for help in my life.10802 Please please support this bill. You don't know if this, if this stuff10807 is in your house10808 because it takes a10809 while to10810 see as we10811 see from some10812 of10812 these calls. It's spreading.10813 It's spreading everywhere. Thank you so much10815 for listening to me today.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you for your testimony. Richard moriarty please.
[DICK10819 MORIARTY (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458] Good afternoon Madam Chair. My name is10822 Richard10822 Moriarty. In 1992, my wife and I built our dream10825 home in East Longmeadow. In10826 2016, as we approached retirement, we decided to downsize and in early 2017 we found a wonderful home and purchased it using the equity in our original home. Our plan was10836 to pay off the mortgage immediately upon the sale as10838 it was only about10839 half the value of the home we purchased. We were10843 selling. We put our10844 original home on10845 the market and sold at asking price at the first open house. I was out of10849 town the day of the inspection, but my10853 wife was still home10854 when the10855 inspector arrived, the inspector10856 was from Connecticut and was well versed in the10859 crumbling concrete problem.
He saw10860 the problem10861 immediately and told my wife that10863 he hated to be10864 the one to tell someone that10866 they are financially ruined. Obviously the sale fell through and we're now10869 stuck with two homes and the largest mortgage we have ever had. After renting the10874 home for six months,10876 we were lucky to be able to sell it but received about $200,000 less than10880 our original offer which didn't cover10882 the cost of our new much smaller home. The time we remained10885 in the house was10886 a nightmare. We realized all the strange noises we heard10889 was our dream home10890 that we designed ourselves falling apart. We also worried about how we are going to be able to survive the financial hit. As we approached our10899 retirement, we reached10900 out to the representatives Senators as well as the Attorney General's10903 office. But being that it was still early.
No one really knew anything10906 about the problem. We talked to10908 lawyers versed in the10909 situation. We are told it would probably10911 not be worth spending good money after bad because the chance of winning the case was slim to none.10916 We are extremely lucky that we had purchased our downsized house before finding out of our problem and was lucky again that10923 we sold our original house for10924 more than I thought10925 we could receive. We were able to pay off10929 our mortgage from the new house and walk away10934 from our dream house. We can't10936 imagine what would have happened if the inspector that looked at our house had not found the problem.10944 The family that was I was going to buy our house was going to10948 finance 90% of the purchase price10949 and they would10951 have been financially ruined. This is10952 devastating news to so many who through no fault of their own find themselves10956 and10956 sometimes life altering situations. Please support Senate Bill S 548.
[RAUSCH:] Thank you for10959 your10959 testimony. Mr. Moriarty. If10961 you are comfortable and10962 are able would you please send the correspondence you had with the Attorney General's office?
[MORIARTY:] Yes, interesting enough. We10969 never heard they said well here in in a few years I'll10976 have to see if we still have10979 the10982 file10982 because unlike that many of these people were gone10985 from the house now for almost five years and we've kind of washed our hands but I will look at the10992 file and we're where would10993 you like me to send it to?
10996 [RAUSCH:] You can email it to me and and we'll make sure that that we distributed to chair Dykema and other11002 members of the committee. [MORIARTY:] Okay. Thank you.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
hank you. Mr moriarty. Okay, Garry bello mike11010 followed by Michael Melanie's Melanie's perhaps Elaine koza11014 and then Lindsay Morris.
[GARY11015 BELLOWS (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458] Thank you madam Chairman. My name is Gary11020 Bellows. I live in Rutland11022 Massachusetts. I'd like to speak11024 in support of Senate bill 548. My wife Charlene and I moved to Rutland with her11031 daughter Hailey in 2005 and purchased the house that we lived in today. I live in the geographic11038 center of Massachusetts is the11040 perfect place to live and raise a family. I11043 am retired Charlene is looking forward to retirement soon. Haley is a11046 junior in college. Our11048 house was built in11049 1997. When we bought the house11052 in 2005. The building inspector identified small11055 cracks in the foundation but had no concern Over time. We found more than 25 we found more with over 25 significant ones in11064 2019. In 2021.
Water seeped through cracks in three places during heavy rain. We believe some threatened the integrity of the foundation walls. We talked to two local foundation repair companies who knew11078 of crumbling foundations in Connecticut but11080 did not believe it to be the issue here,11083 we paid to apply sealant and11085 carbon fiber to seal and ensure structural integrity. After a third contractor review and with further research,11092 we believe that pyrrhotite in our foundation is highly probable. We contracted to test11097 core samples expecting test results11098 next week, We were preparing to replace our foundation at an expected cost 150,000 to $300,000,11103 none covered by insurance. We did not prepare for11107 such an expense. We worked hard to save and pay our mortgage, send their daughter to college11112 and build savings for retirement. We will not sell our home and place this burden on an innocent buyer.
11120 It must be properly resolved.11122 The impending financial loss. The emotional impact of going through this process is extremely unsettling11125 as11125 you've heard many times today. Beyond that, we are concerned about the impact of this issue and others across the commonwealth with no insurance coverage. The11134 cost to repair for11135 many families will11136 be devastating for some. A total11138 loss. It would reduce tax11140 revenues to cities and11141 towns due to reduced home values. It will severely11143 impact the housing market11145 with devalued properties and unacceptable11147 risks to homebuyers. The scope is unknown, but there could be thousands11151 of homes affected. We do not know the source of the aggregate used in our11157 home and others in11158 the area.
But11160 we believe the risk of it coming from local quarries and appearing in foundations across the commonwealth is high, with no insurance coverage to pay for replacement foundations and no regulations in11182 place11183 to prevent pyrrhotite from getting11185 into concrete. There are no options for homeowners, but to assume the burden of getting11190 their foundations replaced11191 or lose their homes.11193 It is urgent that homeowners be provided11197 relief to the captive insurance program11199 that the proliferation11200 of crumbling foundations has stopped testing11201 provisions in the bill and the homeowners, homebuyers and our communities are protected. We urge the11206 committee to move Senate bill S 548 forward and passive legislation. Thanks for listening.
11209 SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you for your testimony. Mr Bellows, Michael Melanie's, please.
I'm here.
Okay, we11215 are. You are, sir. All11216 right, well welcome everybody.11217 Thank you for everything and your involvement. And11219 I see a lot of familiar11222 faces out here many who have been in my basement. Welcome back and anybody that hasn't11231 been in my basement come11233 on over. I'll give you11235 the grand tour.
[MICHAEL MILANESE (CONCERNED CITIZEN):] [SB458]11237 So a couple of things that I want to touch11239 on and I want to don't want to get too political is one of them is I11250 haven't heard much talk11254 about when you reach into your retirement funds to take care11258 of this problem. You also have to pay income tax on that money. So you're not only taking out11266 your retirement, you're taking11269 out a big11270 portion to pay11271 income tax. I don't11272 believe it's fair to surcharge homeowners other homeowners for this problem. That's just my opinion. And as11278 far as I'm going to switch my phone here. So11284 I'm going to give you a a little bit of a demonstrate what I'm dealing with here.11292 So this is my foundation. Um the house was built in early 90s At the time. The building department required 8" walls. I poured 10 in walls to because I never wanted a problem.11305 Now, I have more problem11306 than I really needed.
But this is um, my trusty Leatherman tool here is just a11319 pocket knife basically. And if you look and you start picking at these spots and they say if I'm11328 focused here you'll see it and basically crumbled these little black spots um the mineral11331 that's11331 affected, I'm not sure11334 if it's the pyrrhotite11337 itself or if11338 it's the effect it11339 has on the aggregate,11340 but I11341 think it's, and then can11342 you see that? It's just, it's difficult to take a piece out because it11345 just disintegrates and this goes through the entire wall um inside the out. So this problem, It doesn't11354 go away. It just gets worse.11358 This is if you add 20 years to the11361 um mhm. The, you know, the from the time you build your11370 house at 20 and that's about11373 exactly when it's11374 going to start affecting your, your foundation to to anybody that decides to sell the house to get out from under it. The11381 problem isn't going to go away.11382
It's just going to be handed down the road. This is if you look up, I have temporary bracing holding up the house, it's, I'm not11391 sure doing any good, but um here I have these trees I cut down and I11403 put them from wall to wall, because what happens is the walls are held on the bottom. Look11410 at the straightedge I11411 got, there's about a11414 one inch gap between the wall and11416 the straightedge and it's touching in the middle and then11418 you go to the top and11423 there's a space there as well, so which boils down the wall,11427 bowing in the11428 middle is held on the top11430 by the floor system and it's held on the bottom by the floor. No, um11434 my attempt to11435 um keep the walls from collapsing or cut down a couple of11441 trees and put them into spreaders. Okay, this attempt and saving my house,
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you mr11448 Melanie's I do have a question for you from the House Vice chair of the committee Representative Domb
11453 [DOMB:] Good afternoon. Thank11455 you11455 so much for showing us that. Because11458 you know, hearing about the issues and being able to see them is um is it its own education and I have11464 a question for you. So, you started out saying that you didn't think that other people, other residents, other taxpayers um should be helping, but in fact when we support11476 legislation to allow funds to move from the11482 state to help people, that's basically what it is, because we are all in the11485 same boat. But what I'm wondering11486 is if first of all if I described your position accurately and if I did, what do you see as the solution for yourself from the state,11495 what would you want the state to do?
11500 [MILANESE:] Well, in my11501 own personal belief, I, you know,11503 I I look at Connecticut and their surcharging everyone in Connecticut a dollar a month11512 under, under already high premium that they're paying. Ah congressman Neil was at my house11516 in my basement and he said, well, you11518 know, we have a lot of money and we can probably11524 do something because of all the bills that have been passed to increase taxes11529 to do things like this.11530 So to, to add another tax11531 to, to not already burden11533 homeowners of the state. I don't think that that's, you know, that's just another tax and then my thought, and again11540 get to political about it. My goal today was just to basically show11543 you what we're dealing with and they're going to be dealing with a lot11547 more of it because it's a 2011549 year cycle. Oh, I for11551 a long11552 time.
[DOMB:] I appreciate your thoughts sir.11554 What what I'm wondering though is11555 this is your,11557 I'm glad you showed11558 it to11559 us11559 and I'm glad that you're sharing your view. It's our11562 job actually to be political.11563 And so, um, one11565 of the things11566 I'm wondering though is if you, how would you want the funds to flow then? Are you thinking, are you suggesting that11574 some of the federal money that's been coming to the11577 state be used but that11580 it shouldn't11581 be state revenues Or do you11584 have11584 other particular thoughts on where the funds11587 would come from to be11590 able to help11591 you and other homeowners?
[MILANESE:] I don't have a real11593 I'm going11594 to leave that up to you11595 because that's your job. My job is to show you11598 my foundation and I my taxes. I don't ask for a lot in return. I'm going to have to rely on11604 you to do what's best. And I just my thoughts on, you know,11608 adding more burden to the11611 taxpayers because of my problem to11613 homeowners. Insurance is unfair.
[DOMB:] Thank you.
[MILANESE:] That's why I didn't want to get11618 political because11619 can of worms that I didn't want to do.
[DOMB:] Thank you for11634 sharing.11635
11637 [MILANESE:] Your welcome to come over to my house anytime.
[DOMB:]11643 I feel like I've been in your house now told me.11648 But I have to say to you that it's not11654 just the foundation tour that was educational. Those trees holding up11659 your walls are quite a powerful image. So, thank11663 you for sharing that. Thank you, madam.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
That's yankee ingenuity. Thank you very much. Representative Domb11671 and thank you Mr Melanie's I think I see no other questions from the committee. So, thank you again sir for your testimony. Mhm.
Okay. Um Elaine koza, please followed by Lindsay Morris
Miss11691 koza? Yes. Great. I we can't make the11694 visual work. But can you hear11698 me? That's11699 okay. We uh we can hear you. Yes. All right.
[ELAINE KOZA (CONCERNED CITIZEN):]11705 [SB458] I'm a resident of Connecticut and had11708 a crumbling foundation11709 in my past house. Uh, Connecticut was good enough to fund me and to help me. Um, I'm concerned in that. I have a really11724 good friend suffering not knowing how to fix her11729 house, how to make11738 it better. Um, older, all her retirement funding is put into her house. She's expecting To retire and have a house and she can't afford another11752 $2 or $300,000 mortgage. Like I just don't11755 understand.11756 She's been trying To11757 get you guys on board for five years. We both states seem to be pretty synergistic. Like I kind of don't understand why Connecticut is11776 so much11777 ahead11778 of you guys when you have probably11781 more houses than we did.11783
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you for your testimony. Miss koza.11785 Um, we are certainly11786 considering this bill uh,11788 and and will continue to11789 do so. All right, thank you. Thank you very much for us. Please
Miss Morris,
okay, are there any other homeowners or people who are personally affected by the crumbling concrete who are here to testify? Who have not yet called or who have perhaps circled back after me calling your name earlier.
Okay, moving to Christopher Stark,
[CHRISTOPHER STARK (MASSACHUSETTS INSURANCE FEDERATION):] [SB548] thank you madam. Chair madam chairs my name is Christopher Stark.11798 I'm the executive11799 director11800 of the Massachusetts11801 Insurance Federation here to offer our thoughts on S 54811805 and I appreciate senator Gobi11807 and the work that11808 she has put into this bill. I think that for several of the sections and most of the bill, uh,11819 it's11819 in good shape.11820 I offer to the sponsors the federation's willingness to11825 work with you especially as it pertains to the11829 captive insurance provisions. I don't11832 know that it would be enough to just state that we11839 are going to have a11842 captive insurance uh,11844 company in the state without discussing the funding mechanisms for it.11849 But one of the things as11851 we learned from11852 Connecticut is the importance of11855 a strong amount of that initial seed money. If11860 you will obviously there are options for the11864 state11865 to utilize either bonding leveraging11867 ARPA or other federal funds or the surcharge idea that Connecticut has used as well.
But it's extremely important that when we start the captive that we have a11877 strong perspective11878 on how11879 broad this problem is and as we've heard today and for the last11884 several uh years, there are more places than11887 we anticipated in the commonwealth that may11890 have pyrrhotite in their foundations knowing whether or not we actually have our own quarry in the commonwealth is going to be important for us to understand when we start the captive because one of the things that we've learned from Connecticut is that each year and the way that it's developed the captive will appear to have11911 run out of money11912 while waiting11913 on the next round of bonding and that always impacts its own both political and real ramifications for homeowners and others.
Uh,11922 and so again, we need to make sure that that captive is being funded Um as well as it can be, I think that we11933 also see that there are areas of this piece of legislation11937 through today's testimony that will need to be broadened. Um we're11941 probably11942 looking at going beyond that 5011944 miles of the Connecticut border, but my message really is we11949 are here to help craft the solution to work with the sponsors. I do want11956 to just mention and go back to some of the testimony that we've heard today and there are two differences in the insurance policies and the contracts that have11969 been signed. Um One of them is11973 the foundation um exclusion that for many, many11979 years has excluded things from foundation settlement to droughts, to tree roots coming in, flooding poor drainage, that11987 could have been a11989 maintenance issue erosion, general wear11991 and tear construction defaults.
Uh, those types of things have11995 been traditionally excluded the difference in the policy language more11999 broadly that12000 has happened12001 has been uh around the collapse. And that language has12006 always been that it was collapsed after the Connecticut12010 Supreme Court decisions. There were some companies not all that chose to tighten up that language to ensure that it was imminent collapse, which was the standard given by12023 uh the Connecticut12024 Supreme Court and their interpretations of it. So it wasn't a just a reaction to12032 this, it was language that has been utilized for quite some time by insurers12037 and some companies chose12039 to strengthen that language as a result, but that language has existed and companies believe that that12044 exclusion um without those changes would have held uh in most jurisdictions12049 but chose um to avoid any consumers not knowing12051 what those policy details were12054 and and changed that to imminent12056 again in some policies.
And I've also already reached out thanks to the testimony12063 and the questions that have come from both of the chairs to a company that works and does the standard forms for insurance companies to see if I can trace back the forms12073 uh several decades to just illustrate those changes in the standard12076 form. Again, that may not be for all policies as insurers can have their own forms, but I would be able to get that12086 uh those examples12087 to you of the standard form um for that, for your understanding of the evolution of these insurance policies. But to senator Gobi into the chairs,12096 I look forward to working with12097 you on the captive insurance language, but we definitely need more work in12102 that particular12103 section to ensure that it12104 is done as seamlessly as possible. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Okay, Mr12112 Stark, I see several questions from12115 members of the committee and12116 I will one, I will begin with the first question and then we will move to12122 other members and I may have additional questions after that.
[RAUSCH:] My first12126 question is uh12128 what was the profit margin for the insurance industry?12133
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
You're on mute sir.
[STARK:] I'm sorry about that madam chair that12138 obviously ranges from company to company uh and from line to line but I don't have a total, I'd be happy to12146 get that for you as it's available from from AM. Best and other sources
[RAUSCH:] On average, what's your12152 ballpark?
[STARK:] I wouldn't be able to12156 give that to you. I'll look at the number, especially for the homeowners line of insurance.
[RAUSCH:] Would you guess12168 that it's in12169 the millions?
[STARK:] It could be for some companies, SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
it could be higher than that um for some companies and lower for others. It really depends on whether they're a domiciled company and12186 multi line company, a global or or single state company.
[RAUSCH:] Okay, I'm sure I'll have additional questions.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Let's go to chair, Dykema
[DYKEMA:]12195 [SB548] Thank you madam. Chair12196 and thank you Mr12197 Stark. I appreciate you offering12200 your your thoughts here today. I'm sure you were as moved as the rest of us by a lot of the12206 stories that we've12208 heard here today. And clearly the question of, you12211 know, who is going12212 to bear the financial burden of what are clearly needed repairs is the kind of the12219 nut of why we are here today and I guess I'm wondering um and hoping12224 that you can provide maybe now to the extent that you can but certainly in writing as a follow up, um understanding, um, you12231 know, I'm I'm a homeowner, our family owns a12233 home and we have12235 property insurance. And I guess12238 my expectation would be, or would12241 have12242 been certainly before this hearing today12246 would be that if if something like this happened to our home, it would be covered under our standard homeowners insurance.
And we know now that it is not because of12259 these provisions, which12261 it12262 sounds like our in question as to12265 when they were actually instituted, that would exempt this type of condition12269 from being covered. But I really would like to hear from you12273 on behalf of the industry, what are the criteria um that you12277 use for12278 determining this type of exemption? Um clearly I can see12281 that there would be a company interest or an industry interest in12284 exempting12285 any conditions from a policy which would be costly, but surely there must be a12293 legal standard or a legal precedent that would ensure the public is protected and recognize that uh there must be12303 certain assumptions12304 as a homeowner12305 that when you buy12307 an insurance policy, certain basic things like12309 a foundation, which is certainly,12310 you know, home12311 can't be considered12312 a home, frankly,12313 without a foundation.
Um, can you please clarify for us what is the basis for12318 that exemption? And how do you justify that and determine that12320 firstly? And then secondly, if such an exemption is made and and justified, presumably, what are your obligations both ethically as well as legally and in terms of notifying a homeowner of of this12332 change to the policy or of this this loophole in the12336 coverage.12336 And I recognised to some extent this may12339 be water under the bridge. I'm sure that Connecticut kind of went down this path uh and and better12348 understood this, we're really um you know, just kind of getting into12354 this now and I think12356 it would be helpful for us all uh to understand again, when we talk about who12363 is bearing this financial burden, to understand why it is not12368 the homeowners insurance policy that would be bearing12371 a greater percentage of this burden.
[STARK:] Great. And I'll start from12378 the back and work forward most policies. The notice12382 is given both upon issuance of the policy if the terms are12387 new or upon renewal and any changes to those those notices are12393 are given to the homeowners.12395 Again, I think12396 that this comes12398 back to part of a larger conversation12402 about the number of notices that are required12405 under the law and12408 that with each of those notices, it waters down consumers12410 interest in reading um through more and more12415 of those notices. But notice is given on these changes to12419 a policy um again, upon renewal or upon the inception of the policy when it goes to looking back at these12426 issues again, I think that a12429 lot of this was areas where we're not talking about fire and these things we're talking about generally12434 speaking either construction defect um that we could happen again. These policies by and large in these exclusions
were12442 crafted in an area I think as we've we've talked about without any12451 knowledge of pyrrhotite or um what it could12455 do now, some have changed that language after the fact as well,12463 but at12464 its core, you know, these12465 things, whether it was structural defect again, that should have been the responsibility of12468 the contractor involved in the house or wear and tear where you have12473 to make sure that12474 there are12476 certain aspects of home upkeep that are required versus say those things that are known and covered in unquestionable perils12482 that we deal with rain when snow pale fire. Um those known covered losses12486 um are12487 are different than those12490 that that traditionally12491 are based in uh either12495 structural defect, construction defects or wear and tear. But again, each of these things has12502 been tightened over time and12505 I'm hoping to be12506 able to lay that out for12509 you better as12511 I see the entire timeline of how these exclusions came to be.
[DYKEMA:] I appreciate that madam chair with your indulgence. If I could just offer12522 a follow up12523 comment, um you know, you all are in the risk management business, right?12526 That that's why you're there. Um and these homeowners have paid their insurance premiums, what sounds like reliably and it was their understanding12539 that they were um mitigating their risk with12543 your help. And I just want to underscore how incredibly frustrating uh and12549 painful it is for them to um have12552 not been properly advised of what12554 their coverage was and to have that SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
risk not properly mitigated despite their best efforts to offer the companies who12560 are your members um with12562 regular payments for that for that risk management. So I12566 will offer no more and I will look forward to your12571 additional testimony and clarification on that timeline and reporting requirements.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Mhm. Thank12578 you, madam Chair, I echo your12581 questions12581 and comments. Vice12582 chair Domb
[REP MINDY DOMB:] [SB548] Thank12584 you very much, madam Chair and thank you chair12586 Dykema12586 for those really insightful um comments12589 around what12590 homeowners expect when they take12591 out insurance in terms of the professionals being able12595 to do a risk assessment, I have two questions. Mr Stark and thank you for being here. It can't12600 be easy actually to be in your shoes and follow the really heart wrenching testimony that we've heard. Um12605 and to have to12606 explain why although Rain is viewed as an unquestionable known peril at this time, pyrrhotite is not viewed in the same way. Um but I12615 would like to ask you first12616 of all when you provide the committee with a timeline12621 for when those exclusions were made.
If you would also include in that timeline when12629 public information was12630 provided and if you have copies12632 of what that public information look like to explain those exclusions.12637 I'd like to see that as well. So I want12640 to,12640 first of all,12641 thank you in advance to make that timeline complete. For me, it's not just about when the insurance company excluded it. It's also when and how they educated their consumers about that exclusion. My question is, I'd like12656 to know if you could12661 tell us today12664 what the insurance company12666 industries practice is regarding cancelling policies um for homeowners in12670 this situation, um, and renewing insurance for people in this situation. And quite frankly, I'm looking to12675 find out if insurance companies12677 have either refused to renew in the past12682 or they have not or they have cancelled policies12685 and if they have changed their practice in that12687 regard or if they always maintained a12689 certain12690 practice. Thank you.
[STARK:] Thank Thank you representative. And so12695 this is good news of12697 where the industry has12698 worked with the division of insurance. They just issued a bulletin12702 Earlier, late in 2021 regarding the treatment of homeowners with pira12706 type foundations. And it cannot be the sole reason for12711 any non renewal or cancellation. And so for12713 those covered perils that exists,12714 there is12715 still coverage for individuals12718 and we really want to work with the division to make12721 sure that that is true and that we didn't have any of12724 these areas that had a lack of12727 availability for homeowners insurance.
12728 So we worked with them again ensuring that you know,12732 putting it in their, that under most policies, this12736 is not12737 the Foundation itself is not a covered peril, but your homeowner12741 policies for covered12743 perils cannot be uh non renewed or cancelled due to the presence of pira12748 tightening your foundation.12751 So12751 we have worked with the division to ensure that Availability and access to insurance problems does12757 not become an issue for12759 these homeowners.
[DOMB:] If I may Madam12763 Chair, I just have a couple of following questions. So the regulation just came out from the division12773 in the12774 past year as12776 you're indicating in 2021. Did that12778 happen because insurance companies were canceling and failing to12780 renew12781 insurance policies based on this. Was it a remedial action or was it a proactive measures?12792
[STARK:] It was do based on12798 what12798 was coming to the division as a concern to alleviate. Not that I can't say for certain that no company um chose not to non renew. They may12810 have non renewed for other reasons as well. But I know that that of our members, there was not12818 any significant pushback to the division making that request from12824 insurers and issuing that bulletin.12825
[DOMB:] And to clarify it, you12829 said something that sort of, it's confusing to me, you don't view pyrrhotite as unquestionable12834 known peril, but you do view it as um12837 a12837 significant issue that should be excluded12841 from policies. But you just said that even though12846 it's not a known peril insurance companies now cannot12850 cancel policies based on the presence12852 the pyrrhotite. Is that right?
[STARK:] What I'm12856 saying is that despite the despite the presence of pyrrhotite
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Mr Stark Mr Stark, please let the vice chair finish your question. I'm just,
[DOMB:]12869 I'm confused about how it can be a significant issue that would12873 warrant exclusion, meaning that it's just too expensive12875 to fix and it's not part of what you12880 do, but at12881 the same time you're not viewing it as a known peril, light, wood, flood, rain, etcetera.
12889 [STARK:]12889 Sorry for the confusion12890 on that12891 representative, know what I was saying was that despite12894 the presence of pyrrhotite in a foundation and that that would not be, that's an excluded part of the policy despite that we12901 are now12902 with the bulletin not allowed to not issue policies for those covered12911 perils um, and not12912 cancel or non renewed those12914 policies simply based on the presence of pyrrhotite. It would be like saying we're not going12918 to cancel or non12919 renew because of the presence of something that isn't covered, Which I think also is why most of the companies,12924 you know, didn't have an issue with that. But for all those other covered perils, we want to ensure that there is homeowners insurance actually available in those areas um is the point that12938 I was trying to12941 make despite the fact that this is12944 an excluded um, Loss
[DOMB:] And what defines a12948 peril sir, I mean people12951 are running to us that the foundations are cracking and their homes won't be livable in addition12958 to the12959 fact that they won't be able to get their money out of it. I'm just, I've had12967 insurance, I've had trees fall on my12969 house that I have had to12972 like12973 claim insurance policies for, but what12977 could be more of a peril than your foundation cracking,12980
[STARK:] Well those aren't from the contractual bounds and I'm not meaning, you know, I mean this is where it sometimes gets12986 difficult and um, speaking around12987 both the legalities and the reality on the situation, but12991 the contracts for your insurance policy do not cover a wide12995 variety of causes that12996 could impact your foundation, not just , pyrrhotite but any type of bulging cracking. Those things have13002 traditionally not been covered under a13003 homeowners insurance policy. So it wasn't considered one of the covered perils of that policy compared to again, like13011 I said, when rain, fire,13012 hail snow13014 um as the key13017 covered perils that will13018 be on like13019 page one of your homeowners insurance policy.
[DOMB:]13024 Thank you.13025 I'll stop. I don't want to dominate the questions, but I hope that you13031 will please provide13032 us with13033 the information on the timeline that13037 I asked for regarding public information13038 and13038 consumer information about13039 when those exclusions took place. The timing of that13041 information and what it looked like. Thank you. Thank you13045 madam Chair.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you madam. Vice chair and mr Stark.
13049 [RAUSCH:] 'll just add that I am an attorney by training with13052 previous experience extensively dealing with insurance and contracts and so don't hesitate to get into any of these so13061 called legalese because frankly what you're testifying to today does not reconcile with my understanding of the insurance provisions set forth in contractual law um and a variety of13075 other components that are, I13078 will readily say extremely concerning to me to hear chair13083 Dykema has the next question.
13086 [DYKEMA:] Thank you madam Chair. And I was I was actually reluctant13090 to comment and I really just have a comment which was prompted by the vice chairs um conversation and13101 I just want to um share with Mr Stark what13105 I heard13106 from the exchange with with13109 the vice chair a13110 minute ago, I guess my takeaway with respect13112 to are renewing or continuing13113 the homeowners policy despite the presence of pyrrhotite is that um once13118 homeowners have um tried to file a claim to be reimbursed13122 for the pyrrhotite and13124 essentially13124 been told that the value of13127 their home is now decreased um substantially. Um You know obviously foundational issues are compromised the entire um structure, so effectively impacting the entire13144 home. Um So what you are saying is that your company13148 will continue to collect premiums from those customers yet not13151 address the most fundamental protective aspect of their home that allows13157 them to continue living in13160 it. So I guess13161 I really am troubled by that notion as well not to say that that is core to what we're discussing13171 here. I just think it's it's not it's not a good look for this conversation that premiums would continue to be charged despite that this home is now deemed unsafe. So thank you, madam. Chair for indulging me again.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you, madam. Chair.
Additional questions13194 from members of the committee.
13196 Okay.
13197 [RAUSCH:] Mr Stark, are you an attorney13199
[STARK:] I'm not.
[ RAUSCH:] Who13203 is13203 the lead attorney for this industry that you13206 represent for your your entity? That is the umbrella for the insurance industry, particularly homeowners policies.
[STARK:] We don't have inside council.13242 I have outside counsel that that we retain um and other firms, but we don't have a we don't have any statutory.
[RAUSCH:] Okay. And13261 what law firm are you using?13265
[STARK:] I use a single independent attorney that has had a lot13269 of years of experience and in13273 and around Massachusetts13274 Insurance law,
[RAUSCH:] a solo practitioner.13277
[STARK:] Yes.
[RAUSCH:] And who is that
[STARK:] Peter Robinson.13286
13287 [RAUSCH:] Great. Will you send his contact information to my office or in fact you can dump it into the chat right now. And my Director of legislation and Policy will take that individuals information. I13306 think we have several follow up questions13309 for him.
[STARK:] Great.
[RAUSCH:] Okay, we'll wait for that information to go into the chat before I ask the next question.
[STARK:] Madam13326 Chair, if you don't mind, I will send it to your email and staff email with the full card so that you have both as13340 email and number.13341
[RAUSCH:] Okay. Fantastic. Are we13342 all set with that?
13343 [STARK:] Yeah
[RAUSCH:] Great thank you. Mr Stark would you say on average that your average homeowners insurance policy covers Force Majeure.
[STARK:]13352 What was that?
[RAUSCH:] Would you say that the average homeowners13355 insurance policy covers?13363 Force Majeure. Force majeure is a legal uh phrase. It13366 is based in13367 Latin that quite roughly translates as13370 acts of God,13371 trees falling on your house, tornadoes,13373 floods etcetera.
[STARK:] Yes.
13376 [13376 RAUSCH:] Mhm. Um13377 Would you agree that a particular substance in a mix of concrete not detectable by a13423 surveyor or an inspector? Her um but that renders your house unlivable unsafe and worthless would be something akin to an act of God
[STARK:] No I would argue that that's construction defect.
[RAUSCH:] Mm Construction defect, interesting. That is an interesting perspective.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Okay well there's that any additional questions from members of the committee.
All right thank you for your testimony. Mr Stark will look forward to that follow up information and I look forward to speaking with your attorney. Great thank you.
That is the end of our list of people who have13424 signed up to testify at today's hearing. Is there anyone else here who would like to testify?
Okay seeing none we have reached the end and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but and I will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but will entertain a motion to close
I so moved madam chair to close the hearing. Thank you madam. Vice chair to have a second.
Thank you very much everyone we are adjourned. Hope you enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Take care folks. Thank you Madam chairs
but
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