2023-07-10 00:00:00 - Joint Committee on Consumer Protection and Professional Licensure
2023-07-10 00:00:00 - Joint Committee on Consumer Protection and Professional Licensure
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - Welcome to the
SPEAKER2 - joint committee of consumer protection professional licensure. My name is Taki Chan. I'm the house chair and I'm gonna be introducing a few of the house members. I'd like to do a few housekeeping issues to start today with. I've been informed that the we had an error last week's hearing where we did not publish the stimony of I'm sorry. The results of the executive session. For anybody wondering, all bills last executive session. Do you get a fair report? You can look it up on your own. we can contact the committee. Another thing is that we are asking that, please, please, please, you're gonna email us. I do use the committee email It's on the website of the drug committee consumer protection professional licensure. I do love a charity engine and a 4 grassroots. However, they actually come to our individual email boxes. Theresa, it's important to go to the committee email boxes because we can record your testimony more quickly into the system. That's why the email box for the committee exists just because I do see your email. So I get 2 copies now. The 1 you send me and the 1 that goes into the email box. So both the chairs do see your emails.
Finally, to let members know, the microphones are activated by button. You see a button here. It goes on red if you wanna speak. Otherwise, you turn it off. And because the large volume of I'm over onto page 3 of testimonials here at single spaced. We're going to only ask you to speak for 2 minutes. 2 minutes today. I do understand the notice at 3, but if we did the math, we did 3 minutes. I'll be here for
SPEAKER1 - 6
SPEAKER2 - hours. So we would like to reform folks 2 minutes. Please don't read your testimony. If you have stuff to look at your piece of paper, you know, quickly edit them.126 And, also, if you're gonna read off your screen, you can't see the timer on the clock. We've run across this already. If you're going virtual, please be able to see the timer on the clock.134 And with that, I'd like to introduce the House members of the committee. With us here is Robertson McKenna on my left. We have Representative World, Representative Moschino, online with us. We have representative LeBeouf, representative Reyes, representative Howard, Vice Chair representative, Keith, and Rebsha is Shawn. And with that we're going to be hearing bills on
House Bill 8282, House Bill 350 and Houseville
SPEAKER1 - 191.
SPEAKER2 - And continue with tradition and practice, we're gonna take legislators on a turn. I see representative Donald Wong representative Wong.
Alright. Restaurant Wong needs some technical difficulties. We're gonna go with Clayton Crossley, Mister Crosby.
CLAYTON CROSLEY - NATIONAL QIGONG ASSOCIATION - HB 282 - HB 350 - SB 191 - Thank you so much for letting me test my name is Clayton Crosley. I'm the president and the legislative chair of the National Qigong Association. NQA was founded in 1996 as the largest association in the US, and the bills before the community today are not in the best interest of the public. Qigong isn't alternative healing therapy is classified as complementary integrative medicine by the National Institutes of Health. The government does not require licensure and is actively using these modalities and helping veterans in the VA healthcare system.
Rather, the government requires a certain number of hours of training and recognizes many different schools and organizations who provide these accreditations. This has been standard policy since 2017, I would respectfully ask the community to refer to Veterans Health Administrative directive1137. Senator Montigny's bills associates Qigong with human sex trafficking to which there is no evidence to support this claim. These bills also impact proxy272 other modalities that are used, I'm just I have a list of other over 200276 modalities that this would also impact.
As it relates to the opposition of H.350, an act relative to protecting Asian bodywork lineages. The NQA that poses the passing of this bill is currently written. The bill does not consider the entirety of the scope of medical and clinical, Qigong. Many of the Asian bodywork therapies are also used by Qigong practitioners. The exclusion language in the bill is poorly written and, again, does not take into account the entirety and scope of medical and clinical, Qigong. There are 4 different types of Qigong. there is preventive, medical, martial, and religious. In closing, please note the non existing relationship between Qigong, massage therapy, and Asian bodywork therapy.
Requiring licensure of Qigong practitioners interferes with the basic liberties of the American citizen, the freedom to express yourself, the freedom to worship, freedom to pursue life liberty and the pursuit of happiness are all protected rights in the United States. In addition, regulations and added cost prevent access to anyone and everyone of all backgrounds and income level should they choose to practice and teach Gong is a massive overreach couple with unintended legal consequences. There is not equal representation from each profession that this bill impacts. Thank you very much. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you for hitting on time. Any questions for the testify? You're being done. Thank you very much. For the people in person, you only have to hit the phone once. So when the red light goes on, it's live to let you know. We are being recorded on the Internet. So today's proceedings are being recorded. So I've been reminded by staff. Watch what I say, but I can't tell you guys what to do. We're gonna take Lauren Bonanski Joseph, who's here in person.
LAURA BENETSKY JOSEPH - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - HB 350 - SB 191 - Thank you committee members for your time and today. My name is Laura Benetsky Joseph. This is actually the 7th bill I have testified some of you may have recognized my face. because I am on the Massachusetts track coalition for representing victims of domestic violence on multiple other bills pending currently in the state of Massachusetts. I am not here to represent track. I am here to represent myself as well as other victims of domestic violence, serious coercive control, post separation abuse that literally almost killed me. The very429 modalities you are trying to regulate,431 I'm also I got to say that435 I'm also a practicing spiritualist. that438 is a recognized religion in the state of Massachusetts. The legislations that are both pending under H.350, S.191, H.282.
All three of tem of them actually violate my personal religious freedoms. Because as my daily religious practice, when I sit in prayer position, and I start reciting. I would be in violation of the law. Because you would be regulating my personal practices, my personal belief systems, and here's a thing, we're also would be harming all those that are facing end of life, addictions, homelessness, the BIPOC community, Wicca religions, indigenous freedoms, and BIPOC freedoms as well. not to mention the Asian communities where we are lineage holders. I am a lineage holder out of the Jiket and Ricky Institute in Kyoto, Japan. If this bill passes, I've already been instructed by my teachers to cease and desist. Because it would be infringing on their root systems and practicing that goes lineage in another culture. So, I, thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you much for your testimony. Any questions for the testifier? they're being done. Thank you very much for your time.
528 SPEAKER5528 -528 That's528 not true.
SPEAKER2 - Brexit of Wong. Are you ready to go?
That's fine, representative. He's the testifiers have 2 minutes apiece, and you have to turn on the microphone next to you for your guests. So just be mindful of 2 minutes apiece for your guests.
REP WONG - HB 282 - HB 350 - SB 191 - Bing, Qigong, and martial arts since 1965. And if this bill goes to an into effect, I will not be able to practice because I don't have a license. even though I've been taught and still learning since 1965I do feeling non touch and touch, depending if how severe this comfort is. And now I have two people speak. Also,
JORDAN DANE - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - HB 350 - SB 191 - Thank you, Paul. My name is Jordan Dane, and I'm an ordained minister. Also certified massage therapist, a senior spiritual guide and a follow-up instructor with modern history school, a $1000 of classroom training. I've been training for over 25 years. serving over 2000 clients and students both one on one in the process. And every year, I attend another fine to seven weeks ongoing professional training certification. want to say that in terms of the stated purpose of these bills about stopping human trafficking and sex trafficking, I've read several times the entire report from the 2000 2013 with their agency task force with this topic eight, and their amazing recommendations.
I totally support all of those. I know they're up to them, the blog and my sister Ariana do as well. There's so many of those recommendations, but they should absolutely be implemented. And644 this bill these bills that keep coming forward, they'll the body work bill and select several variations to that name, really contain none of those recommendations. If the states wish is to actually prevent human trafficking, there are many effective ways to do that. They're just not contained in these bills. Several reasons to oppose S.191 H.282, There’s a huge overlap, as Laura was saying, between meditation teachers, shamans, Ragey therapists, ayurvedic practitioners, many of these other modalities and religious experience and practice. For most of these practitioners.
Their spiritual practice is what they're doing as service to their clients and to their students. As a mystery school, for example, we were different than Rieki. We're different than Xi Gong. We do many different things, but we're in the lineage of King Solomon. So there's a Jewish aspect to what we do. we work with Jesus Christ is a Christian aspect to what we do. We work with different traditions from all over the world, and we do hands on and hands off energy healing using those modalities. So there's a very direct overlap there between spirituality business, what we're doing, and religious freedoms that are for constitutionally protected both, of course, by the United States Constitution and also by the Massachusetts Constitution. So there's a another aspect with this that is related721
ARIANA BAIN - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - HB 350 - SB 191 - Hi, everyone. My name is Ariana Bain, and I'm a resident of Summerville. I was born and raised in Massachusetts. And I have a master of science from Yale and Sustainability Science. And I'm also a teacher, a healer, and a guide in the modern mystery school, and I've been practicing for over a decade now. I attend 4 days of professional certification every year already, and750 as Jordan was saying, another 5 7 weeks of continuing education every year and have well over 3000 hours of professional certified training to do what I do already. So to reinforce what Jordan was saying, we all take human trafficking really seriously. If anybody wants to do anything about human trafficking, please implement the recommendations from the 2013 Taskforce report.
None of which are contained in any of these bills. None of these bills would do anything to actually implement any of those recommendations. Additionally, these bills would create a bureaucratic nightmare for a practitioner for practitioners, and they would essentially put thousands of hardworking tax paying, Massachusetts residents out of business or at risk of going out of business based on unnecessary requirements? that are arbitrary. The bills, particularly, H.282 and S.191 would be creating a seven member board three of which810 of those members would be massage therapists that know nothing about any of814 the 150 to 200 different modalities and professions that potentially going to be regulated here. So they're in direct competition.
There would only be 2 alternative therapy practitioners on this board. Is there any other profession in the world that would ever be governed by a seven member board? Majority composed of competition to a professional837 field. And that is something that is unknown to me. Maybe it is something that's common practice, but I have never seen such843 a thing. And it's also trying to have 7 people establish the professional standards for somewhere between a 1502100 different professions, and that's completely inappropriate. We support having real professional standards within each of these professions and we would love to have conversations with any or all of you about how to create appropriate specific professional standards so that these needs can be met. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you very much for your time. Just a reminder, just noticed that the screen is not behind me. The screens for the time right to my right and left. Obviously, we wanna see you talking to us, but also the just to let you know where the timers are.
SPEAKER9 - Thank you.
SPEAKER2 - Any questions for the test the fires? You're being done. Thank you very much for your time. I would like to recognize our senator Walter Timothee has joined us today and the hearing. I understand that a representative of Kate Donny, who will be joining us as well virtually. With that,
and send it to all of that. It was also online. I'd like to take a couple of virtual testifiers now. I'd like to just call it Rita Glassman. Rita.
Hang on. You're muted, Rita.
SPEAKER9 - Oh, okay.
SPEAKER10 - Can you hear me now?
SPEAKER1 - 2
SPEAKER2 - minutes, Rita.
SPEAKER9 - Can can you hear me?
SPEAKER2 - Yes. We can.
SPEAKER9 - Okay. Great.
RITA GLASSMAN - REIKI UNIFIED - HB 282 - HB 350 - SB 191 - Chair Cronin Chair Chan, and members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I'm asking you to oppose S.191, H.282 and H.350 I am a Rieki master of Masters and cofounder of Rieki Unified. The issues with S.191 and H.282. This is the sixth time that licensure bills for alternative body948 work practice have been filed in the Commonwealth by Senator Montigny. This year's bills are exactly the same as S.221 and H.350 filed in 2021, which were sent to study.
Massachusetts has the 10th most burdensome occupational licensing laws in the country, costing the commonwealth 411.6 million in lost economic activity. Rieki is a spiritual practice recognized by the National Institute of Health as a form of complementary medicine that does no harm It is not a form of alternative medicine as referenced in the bills. This is an important legal determination as it is not in any way a subset of massage bodywork or alternative medicine. The burden of licensure fees from these bills will cause great financial hardship to the practitioners and teachers, and then you will have to go out of business. It will also wipe out the hospital.
And hospice volunteer Rieki programs to treat immediate families. Regarding H.350, the definition of Asian body works therapy in the bill is too broad and targets all chemotherapies and practitioners. They treat the body mind emotions and spirit, including the electromagnetic or energetic field, which surrounds the1032 body. It could be said that all utilize Chinese medical principles. Line 112 of the bill states nothing in the sack prohibits a person from engaging in a profession,1042 not specifically named or defined within this act. However, the1046 professions are not specifically named in the bill as to which they will affect. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - You, miss Glassman. Any questions for the testifier?
They are being done? you for your time. We have Vice Chair, Senator Sumeran joining us virtually, and I see representative SINA to my left has also joined us for the1068 education people on the Internet, it's1070 hard to see the whole screen as well.1072 And we're also looking this direction because that's1074 where our screen facing you is. So it isn't like we're not paying attention is just we're looking at a different direction. With that, I'd like to take up another virtual person, Andrea Wiener, Wiener, Is Weiner?
SPEAKER11 - Yes. Thank you. Can you hear me?
Oh, and you hear me?
SPEAKER2 - Did you please speak up the
SPEAKER6 - Is this better?
SPEAKER2 - Much better. You have your 2 minutes.
SPEAKER11 - and I cannot see the chamber. I can see other participants.
ANDREA WIENER - FELDENKRAIS GUILD OF NORTH AMERICA - Thank you, chair. Cronin chair Chan and members of the committee for the opportunity to testify today. My name is Andrea Wiener. I'm government relations administrative for the Feldenkrais Guild of North America speaking in opposition to S.191 and H.282. We were surprised and disappointed to see that after all the testimony in1129 2021 showing the fundamental flaws in s 221 and h 350 that you're hearing about it again today, the bills were reintroduced with no changes whatsoever. As others have said, each discipline1142 has unique training requirements and can't be effectively regulated by a licensing board of individuals who have no familiarity with them.
With massage therapists and other professionals accept regulation by such a board for their professions of course not. Our professional standards for a Feldenkrais Christ method practice have been in effect since 1977, and only certified teachers and authorized trainees can use our registered service marks. teachers must complete 800 hours in an accredited program that's licensed by the DPL. They must adhere to our standards practice and code of professional conduct and fulfill continuing competency requirements annually. Their subject to the requirements of our grievance protocol that can result in removal of their certification and inability to practice the Feldenkrais Christ method. And furthermore, the Feldenkrais Christ method is not healing therapy.
It is somatic education. Teachers use words and may use gentle noninvasive, noncorrective touch to guide students attention and enhance learning. Students are fully clothed. There have been no allegations of misconduct or harm by Feldenkrais Christ teachers in Massachusetts. A prominent website shows hundreds of listings for illicit massage services in Massachusetts, for1220 which licensure is required, and1222 consistently shows none for the Feldenkrais Christ method in Massachusetts or elsewhere. My licensure isn't effective at preventing human trafficking or other criminal activities, and others have spoken to that in their testimony. we support1236 strengthening the criminal code and using recommendations of the Massachusetts interagency human trafficking, policy, task force. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER11 - Antos Ascend at Vermont Chikney in Bill s
SPEAKER1 - 1057.
SPEAKER2 - Thank you. You're 2 minutes off, man. While we're trying to keep this hearing moving, I do understand people are reading off paper. I do, again, encourage everyone to get out your pens and get to the point. Any questions for the testifier? You're being done. Thank you much for your time. At this point, I'd like to bring up some people that are here in the room. Dean Diane Miller, Steve O'Connor, and Nate Gorman. Are you here? Well, I'm sorry. That's a virtual panel. Dan Miller, Steve O'Connor, Nate Gorman.
SPEAKER12 - I'm here. Riverch.
SPEAKER2 - Alright. You guys pick who wants to go first, but you get 2 minutes each.
SPEAKER5 - Alrighty. I'm my camera1290 is not working. Can you hear me?
SPEAKER2 - We can hear1294 you.
DIANE MILLER - NATIONAL HEALTH FREEDOM ACTION - HB 282 - HB 350 - SB 191 - Alright. My name is Diane Miller. Thank you for the opportunity to provide virtual and online written testimony. I'm an attorney in law and public policy adviser for National Health Freedom Action. With me today are my colleagues, attorney Steven O'Connor and a legislative adviser, Nate Gorman. Our organization is working to protect the right of people to access the health care practitioners, products of their choice. We oppose S.191, H.282 and H.350 because they would prohibit all practitioners who practice alternative healing therapies and those doing Asian bodywork as defined in the build, and they would negatively impact thousands of consumers and practitioners in the commonwealth.1337
Rather than supporting the licensure bills are and much of the testimony that's been given is what we would also have to say. I just want to say that our organization supports the work and has offered guidance to health freedom action in Massachusetts, a Massachusetts nonprofit organization currently working to pass senate bill 1329, H.2244, safe harbor practitioner exemption bill for all complementary and alternative health cap practitioners. Yesterday, they have supported Senator Collins and represented to Murti in the introduction of those bills with almost 20 legislators signed on. rather1375 than a restrictive boundaries and bow license1377 are built. NHFA1379 sees1379 the safe harbor practitioner exemption approach as a much more effective.
And less restrictive way to address the practitioners1385 during alternative therapies. The safe harbor practitioner exemption would protect access to thousands of complementional trend of health care practitioners providing their services. We've been a leader in over for over 20 years to protect these practitioners. and to protect consumer access to these practices. The one other comment that I have is there's no constitutional basis a potential for harm for any of these. There are restrictive laws, and there's no apparent need for other than to protect small group of people who wish to use government to make their practices exclusive. Thank you for having us here today. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER14 - And I can go next.
SPEAKER5 - Steven.
SPEAKER14 - Steven O'Connor. I'll just tell everyone knows. I thought we had 3 minutes per bill, but I will keep it short and get to the point. Is the committee ready?
SPEAKER2 - Yes. Go ahead. You have your 2 minutes. That's going off now.
SPEAKER14 - Great.
STEVEN O'CONNOR - NATIONAL HEALTH FREEDOM ACTION - HB 282 - SB 191 - I'm Steven O'Connor, staff attorney with National Health Freedom Action. My first comments are on H.350, the Asian bodywork therapy bill. We propose that this is a bad bill. It's both too gen and too specific at the same time. The drafting is arbitrary and inadequate. It's too general because Its definitions would overlap with many modalities not exclusively Asian, and thereby, shut down access. It's inconsistent It's for example, it excludes Qigong. But according to the NIH and the national Qigong Society.
This practice does include teaching people how to self massage themselves. And so telling somebody how to massage their self is analogous to massaging someone else in terms of the risk or lack thereof. And so it is inconsistent to include everything except Qigong. The law is vague in terms of its defined as Asian bodywork therapy, but the language says that the it's based on the practices of a person who specifically applies Chinese medical principles. So it's confusion as far as other Asian modalities such as time massage. Asian bodywork and Chinese medicine are two different things, and the bill confuses them.
Last major point on this particular bill, it indicates that that it indicates that you cannot hold yourself out as an as an Asian bodyworker, comma, practiced Asian bodywork. Now we think they probably meant to say or practice. But the way it's written, most would interpret to ban actual practice and not just ban the title. I realized I meant two minutes if I could just have second on the on the other bill. Just a very brief very briefly note. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Okay? You got 30 seconds. If you can be quick, please.
O'CONNOR - Great. Basically, our group works with health freedom activists all around the US. On a wide range of legislation and proposed legislation, and these bills, S.191 H.282 represent a step backwards for alternative health care options. The current exemptions work. The new section, it adds much too broad of an array of therapies. And with that, I would submit that. And thank you for the time. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you. Mr. Gorman.
NATE GORMAN - NATIONAL HEALTH FREEDOM ACTION - HB 282 - HB 350 - SB 191 - They came up Thank you to the chairman and members of the committee. My name is Nate Forman, and I'm the legislative and policy adviser for National Health Freedom Action. As you have heard, from others who's testified today. The complementary and alternative healing risk practitioners are dedicated to providing the customers and clients access to gentle and safe wellness services. And the practices are loved in Massachusetts, and no small part do the individualized, unrushed attention that consumers desire. Practitioners.
Who are able to take the time that's needed to personalize non invasive healing arts that help them and their families stay well. House bill 191, house bill 282 as well house bill 350 send strong signals of fear to the local complimentary and alternative practitioners having a chilling effect on sustained involvement and regulations that will present and unnecessary and expensive burden of compliance with laws, rules, them to assess and decide whether to continue practice. It could feasibly eliminate thousands of practitioners from working and practicing their vocation without any showing harm.
Losing diversity in the health care market, and allowing the restriction, trade, and monopolization of health care offerings state endorsed dominant professions. Thousands who now1694 provide for their families working in the holistic healthcare field will be effective. Many would simply choose to go out of business adversely impacting their household and children and unemployment will rise. Many of these practice business owners are women and minorities. They are small business owners that would be forced to close, destroying livelihoods, countless Massachusetts citizens who have devoted their lives to helping their friends, families, and neighbors.
And communities who desire access to non invasive historically proven safe wellness care. And in the end, citizens will have fewer choices of practitioners to choose from and fewer choices of diverse modalities of cultural and complementary and alternative care that men prefer as safe, gentle, wellness options. at a time when1739 more options are needed. Senate bill 191, house 182, as well as1743 house bill 350 would negatively impact hundreds of other unlicensed locations that are currently practiced, but may now fall unknowingly into the broad definition of the bills. There are hundreds of types of alternative healing modalities and factors each with their own unique teaching? SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Mister Gorman, Mister Gorman. Mister Gorman, we we got the gist of it. Your your 2 minutes are up, and it gave me nuts for 15 seconds.
SPEAKER15 - Okay. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER2 - Alright. Any questions for the testifiers? You're being done. Thank you much for your time. At this point, I'm gonna take someone in person. Kathleen O'Connor.
Could you speak when you speak, can you get a little closer to the microphone? Because the people in the virtual world needs to hear you.
KATHLEEN O'CONNOR - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - HB 350 - SB 191 - Okay. Good afternoon. My name is Kathleen O'Connor, and I am a Rieki master and Rieki volunteer. And, hon, I am here to speak in a position to H.282, 350 and 191 Rieki is a relaxation tech unique that supports the body's natural ability to balance itself and to experience a sense of well-being. It is simple, gentle and safe hands on technique that activates this parasympathetic nervous system, reduces cortisol in the body, and ultimately reduces stress. I took my first Rieki class 22 years ago.
When I was a student at Massachusetts called to Liberal Arts and North Adams. Over the years, I've taken numerous classes, workshops, attending conferences, and for the past 8 years, I've been a Rieki volunteer at the Israel Hospital in Boston. I see a variety of patients from cancer to antepartum, bone marrow transplants to surgical, into people in the ICU. When I first joined the program, there were only 3 volunteers. Now there are 17 And since 2006, we have seen a little over 6000 patients. I have given many Rieki sessions throughout the years.
But the one patient that stands out me as a woman who had long term untreated Crohn's disease, and she was dying. I saw her several times before she passed away, and she said the only thing that comforted her was Reiki. These bills as they stand are inappropriate, lumping Reiki and other hailing modalities together with anti human trafficking bills gives the impression that body work has something to do with sex trafficking, and it does not. If these posts were to pass, patients would suffer, people would lose their jobs, and a community1902 of caretakers Mostly women would be wiped out. Please vote knowing these bills, healing should not be regulated. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you for your testimony. Any questions for the testifier? There being none. Thank you much for your time. I'd like to take up Julie Claude Stein, Claude Stein, Cludstein, in person.
JULIE KOLOUSTIAN - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - HB 350 - SB 191 - Good afternoon. Thank you for taking the time to listen to me. My name is Julie koloustian, I am a cancer survivor with my deadly leukemia in remission in part due to a modality called Tong Ren for which I will be forever grateful. I know a lot of other people that are remission from various healing modalities. I'm a Rieki practitioners1954 as1954 well as the Tong Ren practitioner, and I strongly1956 encourage you to oppose S.191 H.282 H.350. In this post COVID, divisively hostile and disputing world, the last thing our world needs is more barriers to entry for something that is giving people so much emotional support. Forget if they do anything on the physical level, the emotional spiritual support. We need uplifting help in today's1982 world.
Please, I urge you to not pass things that will not help sex trafficking but will cause a lot of barriers and a lot of harm for a lot of people that are just trying to do good. I know many people that do this for no charge. why are we going to try to stop this in today's world? That's my one main thing that I want to mention. Of course, it affects you know, the solo practitioners and the lower income communities even more, which is another issue. And the altruistic nature of the people that do this work are something so unique. I've never seen this anywhere. And please, please, we need more of this. We need more of this. Really, that's all I can say. I urge you to just oppose this bill for the 6th time, and please let's focus on more important things and and let these people help other people. Thank you very much for your time. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you for your testimony. Any questions for the test of fire? You're being done. Thank you very much for your time.2037 We're gonna take a couple of virtual folks next. We have a panel of Dan Levin and Sage Brody. Mister Levin, Mister Brody, are you there?
SPEAKER18 - It's miss Brody, but yes.
SPEAKER2 - Oh, miss Brody. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER19 - That's okay.
SPEAKER2 - You have you 2 minutes each.
SAGE BRODY - INTERNATIONAL SOMATIC MOVEMENT EDUCATION AND THERAPY ASSOCIATION - HB 282 - HB 350 - SB 191 - So I'll start, good afternoon. My name is Sage Brody. I've been designated a master somatic movement therapist and educator by the International Somatic Movement Education and Therapy Association known as ISMETA 'm a lead faculty member and educational director for the Levin Institute for Expressive Movement. which has been training somatic movement therapists for over 30 years. And as a representative of the Levin Institute, I sit on leadership council of ISMETA. I want to illustrate and elaborate on how well regulated and monitored the training programs that fall under the umbrella of somatic therapy already are by our governing body is ISMETA
Our training program has been designated as an approved training program by is meta, and in order to gain that designation, there was rigorous vetting of our $500 curriculum to ensure that it conform to the guidelines and requirements within ISMETA. There was also an in person evaluation as a board member was present giving critique at each session during our vetting process. Additionally, each year, we resubmit the per curriculum, the program structure and requirements, and affirm that all faculty are also qualified via ISMETA These submissions are evaluated each year by the Professional Standards Committee of ISMETA, which is comprised of five board members.
ISMETA also requires that we present a specific module related to standard of practice, scope, practice and ethics relevant to our specific practice and has grievance procedures, including the ability to remove members. Graduate of our program work with clients who are fully closed and only in a very limited way, incorporate touch. We oppose these bills both as myself as a practitioner, our training program, and ISMETA. There's been no designate demonstrated need to protect the public by establishing licensure requirements for the practice of somatic movement education and therapy. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - You can finish your last plot really fast.
BRODY - And given that we already have the strict government Adding additional governments, governments that may actually contradict what we've already been guided to do makes no sense. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you.
SPEAKER20 - Hi. Can you hear me?
SPEAKER2 - We can't hear you. You have 2 minutes.
Thank you. I'm sorry. My camera's not working.
DAN LEVIN - LEVEN INSTITUTE FOR. EXPRESSIVE MOVEMENT - HB 282 - HB 350 - SB 191 - Well, thank you for the opportunity to testify in regards to this bill. My name is Dan Levin. and I'm the founder and director of a training institute for somatic movement therapist for the past 30 years in Lennox, Massachusetts called Levin Institute for Expressive Movement. As Sage mentioned, we're recognized by ISMETA. And, additionally, 30 years ago, I was a board member of ISMETA for 8 years, which recognizes over 38 training programs throughout the world. I've been a registered somatic movement therapist for 40 years practicing this whole time in Massachusetts.
The two solutions that I see here. One solution is to address the following language to Massachusetts General Law, chapter 112, to remedy the bill sponsor the bill sponsor center Senator Montigny’s concerned that existing exemptions could be used as a loophole, for individuals engaging in criminal activity. Please consider adding the following language. Practitioners must be recognized by or meet the established standards of either a professional organization, or a credentialing body that represents or certifies their respective practice based on a minimum level of training, demonstration of competency, and adherence to ethical standards.
This language has been approved by members of the Federation of therapeutic massage body work and somatic movement somatic practice organizations and has been2286 enacted in numerous states with their specific variations on this additional language I just shared. A list of these six states that have their exemption language as of 2021 I provided in my last testimony in 2021 and they are Georgia, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Colorado, and Iowa. The 2nd and less preferable option is if this committee determines that licensure is the only way to proceed.
It's to allow each and every profession to submit their membership to a government licensing committee. The state of Massachusetts would simply license the approved members that the individual per professional organizations submit. In this way, each professional organization registers practitioners that are ethically practicing and have displayed competency in their work. These registered practitioners and teachers from each organization like ISMETA, the Feldenkrais Christ Guild, the Reiki Association, and many, many, many more would submit these names these names to the licensure agency with proof of credential or registration with their respective professional organization. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Mister Levin, your 2 minutes have gone up, and I gave you a few extra seconds. So, I thank you very much for your thoughts on the matter. Do we have any questions from the members of committee? They're being done. Thank you very much for your time, Mister Levin.
SPEAKER20 - Thank you.
SPEAKER2 - I'd like to bring up next.
Hold 1 moment.
I can bring up Meshan Forrester, please?
MISHA FORRESTER - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - Thank you very much. My name is Misha Forrester. Thank you, chair Cronin, chair Chan, and members of the consumer protection and professional life committee. I'm speaking in opposition of S.191 and H.282. This is the fourth time I have presented to testimony in opposition to similar bills. I'm a Feldenkrais Christ teacher working in Massachusetts as a full time professional and a modest income I'm also the volunteer of the New England region regional representative in the Massachusetts government relations liaison, for the Feldenkrais Guild of North America.
The Feldenkrais method is not an alternative feelings therapy, at no time in advertising or training? Is there any reference to the Feldenkrais Christ method as a therapy, or is substitute for alternative to medical treatment. For over 30 years, all failed and priced training programs have been accredited under an internationally approved training accrediting policy with all graduates of these programs regulated by Feldenkrais Christ Professional Associations and Guild. For each 800 training program, there is a consistency internationally in the educational requirements and in the required skills and experience for the certified staff. This allows graduates to meet credentialing requirements anywhere in the world.
And it most importantly gives public access to Feldenkrais Christ teachers who have similar training throughout the world. This consistency is rare in any discipline other than some academic disciplines, such as mathematics or classical music. The Feldenkrais Christ practice assumes that human beings have transformative potential and that all people, regardless of their age or condition, have the ability to learn Our practitioners are teachers, not therapists. This bill is unwarranted for this method. which has no allegations of misconduct, illegal activity or harm by any of the 45 teachers in Massachusetts. Thank you very much for hearing my testimony. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you for your testimony. questions for the testifier. There being none. Thank you very much for your time. I'd like to bring up Karen Botox.
She's on virtually. Are you on?
Miss Potax, are you muted? Okay. Alright. Well, we'll we can hear you now. Can you please speak up a little more?
KAREN EVE BOLTAX - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - Yes. My name is Karen Eve Boltax and I am testifying against H.282 and S.191. I'm a Feldenkrais Christ Teacher based in2560 Jamaica plain, Boston, and a violin teacher. This is my third time opposing these bills. I'm a teacher of music and of movement, and I am not an alternative healing therapist. licensure is an unnecessary and onerous and a burden to making a living as a Feldenkrais Christ teacher. and provide valuable learning to our clients. My training was in Boston. It was 800 hours of learning, and we were taught to honor the dignity of each person that we work with and teach. In conclusion, I opposed the bill, and thank you for hearing testimony. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Bitch here appreciates your efficiency. Any questions for the testifier? They're being done. I thank you very much for your time. I'd like to bring up on a Susan Goldfisher. Miss Goldfisher, are you there? She's on virtually.
SPEAKER19 - Yes, I am.
2628 SPEAKER22628 -2628 Alright.2628 You have a few minutes.
SUSAN GOLDFISCHER - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - Again, thank you, chairs, Cronin, Chan, vice chairs, and members of Committee. Again, I am here to oppose House 282 and senate 191. I have appeared before you again before And I truly hope that I don't have to appear before your committee again. I am a resident of Massachusetts. I am a full time job as an in working in an office, but I also, 7 years ago, became a Guild certified Feldenkrais Christ practitioner and what I want to focus on here is that Feldenkrais Christ's method and Feldenkrais Christ teachers. So our methodology is we are teachers, and we work with students, the people we work with, our method people are completely closed.
And it is a movement practice. We are helping people find more and different ways of using and moving themselves. If we work in two ways, we work in group classes. And if you were to attend a Feldenkrais Christ method of work, awareness through movement class, you would see a bunch of individuals. It wouldn't look maybe that different from a yoga class or a Tai Chi class2705 or those types of movement classes. It's a movement class. Again, we don't consider us self's body workers, healing therapy, we work in movement and awareness of movement and enhancing the way we use and move our to regulate us in the same way that your regulate massage therapists makes absolutely no sense.
What we do is no different than what a yoga instructor, a pilates instructor, a tennis coach, a golf coach might do in helping a student become better at movement in whatever discipline that they're working in. I also want to say that if this bill were to pass, I would not be able to practice. My intention is retired from my profession and become a practitioner here in the state, I would not be able to do that if you require licensure and I can most confidently say that the person that I see that is my Feldenkrais Christ teacher would not as well. The requirements of licensure are not just paying on fee every year. That's not the issue. Again, this bill would put us under the guidance of a board that has no knowledge SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
complete 800 hours. Okay. My time is out.
SPEAKER1 - --
SPEAKER19 - Thank you for your testimony. -- SPEAKER2 - Thank thank you for your testimony. You you you receive your 2 minutes and a little extra. so we we can see your ceiling. Thank you very much for your time. You state the obvious sometimes, folks. Mora Yale is on virtually. Maura Miziel?
MARA YALE - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - Yes. Thank you. I oppose H.282 and S.191. I'm a Feldenkrais Christ teacher, living in Framingham and practicing in Sudbury, Massachusetts. I also oppose these bills, and I want to emphasize guys that it's unnecessary to be licensed by a massage board as you stated. In my testimony, I'd like to highlight my personal trajectory with this work. I found the method originally for a shoulder injury and self care. But in 2009, my younger child had a stroke at birth. They were diagnosed quickly at Chose's general hospital.
And thanks to my Feldenkrais Christ training and colleagues. My child was in the most skillful. hands of Feldman Christ teachers who work primarily with children with cerebral palsy and other early brain injuries. My child's level of functioning, now is the best that could be expected after such a brain injury and exceeds what's typically seen after perinatal stroke. They're bilingual and play ice hockey and soccer. It's for the reasons of my child's well-being that I'm passionate about working as a Feldenkrais Christ teacher to help other families get the care that their children deserve and need.
I also work at Massachusetts General Hospital closely with my child's team of neurologists and physiatrists and many other parents and medical professionals. We lead workshops that bring together clinical experts and parent birds to spread best practices, again, to support optimal well-being for children after early brain injury. Much of this from my perspective is brought from the teachings of Moshe Feldenkrais Christ applied as I learned in my 800 hours of training. Once again, please don't pass H.282 and S.191. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you for sharing your story, Missiel. Any questions for the testifiers? You're being done. Thank you much for your time. At this point, I'd like to do some folks in person. We have Francis E, who's here in person. Mister E here?2953
Alright. Staffing. Check with Mister Yi, please. I will now move on to someone else in person. Robert Claudestein. Claude Stein.
I can't I'm not sure if I pronounced that correctly.
Thanks for coming in. You have 2 minutes.
ROBERT KALOUSTIAN - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - HB 350 - Thank you. My name is Robert Kaloustian. This is about the sixth time, I believe, a S.191, H.282, H.350 have come up. I'm surprised there isn't a statute of limitations on this. I don't know how many times you want to go over it. This is a copy of acupuncture today. July 2023 issue, and it lists 750 practitioners of acupuncture. currently in Massachusetts3009 20 years ago, that number was 750. To get licensed in this state, is quite a task. In 2018, my wife wanted to go to massage school The only school she could find was over an hour away.
It was quite a task to get licensed and it the barriers you keep putting up to these people just stifle the growth of this industry. and there are hundreds of modalities that are covered by these three bills that will be dampened, stopped, and as I can see it, the only person supporting this bill is the state. I don't see other people here in support of the bill, I see hundreds of people opposing the bill. What is this going to profit? The Massachusetts3069 tax revenue. That's my statement. I think that aside from the taxes, the state's going to Ghana from this, I see no gain in these bills, and I encourage you to turn them down once more. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you for your testimony. Any questions for the Testifier? There being none. Thank you very much. I'll take another person in a person that's physically here. Alicia Dane. This is Dane.
All right, we'll come back to that 1. Debbie Knowlton, Miss Knowlton.
SPEAKER24 - Hello.
SPEAKER2 - All right.
SPEAKER4 - Can you hear me?
SPEAKER2 - Oh, you're virtual. I'm I'm sorry. I have you listed as in person, miss Knowlton. You have your 2 minutes.
DEBBIE KNOWLTON - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - HB 350 - Oh, yes. Thank you. My name is Debbie Knowlton. I live in Somerville, Massachusetts. I have been a Feldenkrais master since 2018 I practice in a volunteer capacity. Like others have said, I believe that these bills, I am speaking in opposition of all 3 bills H.282, S.191, H.350 and it's like others have said, additional burden on practitioners, not linked to human trafficking, I can speak to modality. It is Reiki only, and I will tell more of a story than talk about all of the reasons why these will have a negative impact on practitioners and all of the people that they practice with. I have over 100 hours of practicing at Brigham.
And Women's Hospital. On many occasion going into a room with a patient I'm the only person that comes into that room that is about that person and only about that person. I'm not about vital signs. I'm not about I'm not a caseworker. The person, it's about them. It's about promoting their relaxation and about being there for them one on one to help them heal and to help them heal themselves. That is the only purpose of my being there. I am thanked on an amazing level, and people who did not know what Reiki were, didn't even really believe in it. They take it because it is free and they want to feel better.
And I can tell you on many, many no one has ever said that felt terrible. Please leave. We have it really helps people. We have worked on their visitors and on nurses. and on all of the people providing all of all of the care. Massachusetts is a wonderful place where people come to heal and they come to feel better. Please do not take this away from people, please. And me, I benefit wonderfully from Reiki. It's It feels good to make other people feel better, and I'm at time, but please oppose these bills. This is my third time coming here. and talking in opposition. So, please oppose these bills. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you very much for your testimony. Any questions in the testifier? There are being none. Thank you very much for your time. I'd like to bring up a a panel at this point as kind of a mix of virtual in person panels, so coordination's always a challenge with this. Lauren Pap, Amy Magur, James Lowe. Tiana Kutoff. I'm gonna mangle some names here folks. Mary McCallister,
So forgive me on the pronunciation issues here. So The challenge of3286 in person virtual is kinda coordinating on your side who's gonna speak first and3290 next.
Could you please sit just right in front of the microphone? You if you could, just get to close the microphone because people in Internet then needs to be able to hear you.
SPEAKER5 - James, do you wanna speak first, or do you want me to speak
SPEAKER13 - first? Okay. Hi.
SPEAKER2 - Hi. Could could you do me a favor? When you're done, could you signal which virtual person to talk next. So could you please signal which next which person to talk next virtually when you're done with your testimony so -- Okay.
SPEAKER1 - --
SPEAKER2 - you guys can coordinate that?
SPEAKER27 - Great. Great. So, Mary, why don't you go after me? And then we'll have James Lowe's or, actually, James, why don't you speak last? because I think you're gonna be be able to speak.
Let me speak. Okay. So James is gonna speak first. I'm gonna speak second. Mary, you speak third,
Tanya. Why don't you speak 4th? And who oh, Kimberly, you're gonna come. Come and sit. It's up here then. And then
Amy Major,
then you can speak, and then I don't know who else off the top. I had my apologies. I just came from the airport.
Okay. So, James, why don't you go first?
JAMES LU - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 350 - Okay. By the way, it's my name is James Lou, I'm Chinese New Immigration. Come to United States for 40 years. I originally expanded my background a little bit I'm legal in pain. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER27 - So, James, we're we're in in support of h 350. Yes. So okay. And you gotta we gotta keep a minutes, so you wanna keep it even 1 minute.
LU - Okay. So in a minute. And I again, couple of point is I live in Quincy. support of the Asian community. And I am the new immigration, and I already have the background of the trainer for over 40 years, and I will be support the bill giving the Asian new immigration the official role to walking different than the massage. I might I'm the massage therapist. but I'm using 95% of my Asian bodywork to take care of the people of the pain and I support of the people, legal impaired handicap people can get a job without getting more trouble.
I also support the Chinese community in Quincy, and we had a lot of people for new immigration, what for the massage field, instead the people think it's about, they are its human trafficking and the Saks activity. I'm giving a lot of samples3467 saying, you know, legal impaired people using two hands that can support themselves. and take off the pressure from the government, and we had a rehab for giving the people true job for the legal impaired people. So I will be, like, the people walking really good using the hand for a supplier in society. Thank you very much.
LAUREN PAAP - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 350 - I'll just clarify a few points that James Lowe is a longtime 20 year plus3500 member of the AOBTA. We was a former acupuncturist and lost his vision a number of years ago, and Asian body work therapy is the profession that he's chosen. However, since then and is has a successful practice. However, there is no professional licensure, so he's to do it under other licenses. And we I'm represent I'm an acupuncturist. I'm an Asian bodywork therapist. I was formerly the president of our non nonprofit and there's a lot of confusion about East Asian practices. There are many disciplines. And, unfortunately, this beautiful tradition from millennia has been slandered around the country due to some illicit crib criminal activity.
And so there is inappropriate regulation around the country.3548 And you know earlier bills, we are here today because we submitted a redraft back in 2020 and had an earlier version of Montigny’s bill, I would have been a certified non prostitute. And that is what we're doing both to a cultural3561 heritage and to a viable career and there's many people who don't want to have acupuncture, for example, but they want they want the gentleness and they the holism of the Chinese medicine discipline. And so both to preserve this3578 craft, which has been diluted over the last3580 20 years while Other professions have sought professional licensure.
There is a lot of interest with complementary alternative and integrative medicine. for viable opportunities, for pain, mental, emotional, physical, and there's a bright future. There's a bright history. There's a bright future. We've had sort of a few years of a lot of confusion, and it's I'm I've offered to work with Senator Montigny's office about doing appropriate regulation or not dealing with criminal activity. My background is working in nonprofit. We're very sympathetic to the victims of crime, but is not appropriate to then do inappropriate regulation. Thank you so much for your time and attention. Happy to meet with any of you in the future. Mary,3630 I'll turn it over to you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER18 - Mary, are you on?
SPEAKER27 - Okay. Tanya, I see you looking so I'm gonna say go up. She's 1 of mine.
Can you unmute yourself?
SPEAKER2 - Yeah. These coordination in person virtual is always a little tricky. You still have the mute button on. Can we unmute her from here?
SPEAKER28 - Yes. There
SPEAKER2 - you go. Here
SPEAKER28 - we now.
SPEAKER27 - Yes. We hear you. Thank you, Tanya.
TANIA KOTLOV - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 350 - Hello. My name is Tania Katlove, and I'm a patient of Lauren. I'm a cancer survival for many years. I have cancer at stage 4. And I live several years with terrible back pain. I come to the point that I barely could walk. work at all, and it's hard for me to stay. But thanks to Lauren. I'm living without pain right now. So I am supported H.350, and I hope everything will be fine. For many years, I was work I was traveling to Czech Republic to have this Chinese body work on and it helped me for two months. I live without pay, and then in return in return. But thanks to Lauren. I'm more than two months now without pain, and I'm very happy that she can do this Chinese body work on me. And only person who live with Spain all the time could understand my happiness now, and I'm very help happy, and I'm very grateful. And I am supporting H.350. Thank you very much for your time. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER27 - Thank you so much, Tanya. I'm so grateful that you chose to participate in this. The Mary said she's having a hard time joining. So I'm I'm gonna ask, is Amy Major, who is the legislative director, co director for acupuncture Society of Massachusetts on?
Okay. Is Victor Emmanuel for a legislative director for AOBTA present.
Alright. I'm gonna say text me if you wanna go next. I'm gonna give it over to Kimberly. Thank you. Thank you.
KIMBERLY - AMERICAN ORGANIZATION FOR BODYWORK THERAPIES OF ASIA - H.350 Okay. I quickly wrote something. First of all, I support h 350. I would love to see Massachusetts to be a forerunner to licensing of Asian bodywork therapy, opening a way for similar licensing throughout the country. I am an Asian bodywork therapist since 1986 after I finished my program. I was invited as a graduate to intern at the Shattuck Hospital Pain Stress Relief Clinic Under Ted Kaptchuk. I do not have any issues with strictly somatic therapies whose scope of practice does not include touching in the person, but as things stand, unregulated, touching somebody could be problematic.
Even if you're under a certain scope. It's problematic. This is my 6th hearing on getting a bill with correct language that acknowledges the trade of Asian bodywork therapist and gives us the ability to have a state license to practice the same as muscular therapy. Because though we do a different technique, it is a subset of massage therapy. And until 2008, our licensure was under the umbrella of mass massage therapy. I was asked by the state if I would be interested to grandfather in in 2007/8. I refused and requested Quincy to create a licensure. It took them seven years 40 illegal establishments to finally give me the licensure through the board licensing board. Thank you. I'm in favor of H.350. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER19 - Thank you, miss -- -- very much.
SPEAKER2 - Thank you. Have you figured out your rest of your testifiers virtually?
SPEAKER27 - Is there anybody else here online As a representative of LaBouf, have you already testified? I see you.
Okay. Is there anybody from the ARBTA that is here that still unsatisfied. Mary can't join hasn't been able to participate. She can't log on.
SPEAKER2 - We can always flag them and come back a little later. You can let committee staff know what they're back on if could and just keep this thing moving.
SPEAKER18 - Thank you.
SPEAKER2 - Thank you for guys for your testimony. Any questions for the folks? You're being done. Thank you very much. To my right, a representative, Adani, who has joined us.
PAAP - But I did one quick thing I didn't say is that we are working in coalition with other east Asian, Chinese medicine professionals to make sure that this is appropriate licensure and does not negatively impact anybody else. So we welcome collaboration. This will not impact negatively CAM3950 modalities. This is about defining a profession that has existed for many years. and in the last 20 years has been decimated. So this is3958 we are appealing to you to make sure that we're not extinct and that there's a respectful path for professional licensure and that I go to towns and they say, we're sorry for the language. that you're regulated under. This is not about you. Well, it affects a whole community.Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you so much for that. Like I said, if you virtual folks come back on, just let the committee staff in and know so we can flag it. Thank you. We're gonna stay virtual for a little longer here, folks. I got a Karabradosian virtually available? Miss Brenojin?
SPEAKER30 - Hello?
SPEAKER2 - Hey. We can see and hear you. So you got 2 you got your 2 minutes.
CAROL BEDROSIAN - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - H.350 Alright. My name is Carol Bedrosian. I live in Uxbridge Mass. And I have used alternative medicine for all of my healthcare needs for over 40 years. And Massachusetts4015 is a leader in the nation for access to the best health care, and that includes alternative medicine. There's a rich well developed network4023 of 100 of natural healing modalities used by tens of thousands of practitioners in the state. Choice is plentiful for consumers. Prices are reasonable. And a very large number of these providers are unlicensed because there is no evidence these professions prevent any present any health or safety risk to the public.
On the contrary, many of these unlicensed practitioners currently work in hospital and hospice settings. The last three presidential administrations, Obama, Trump, and Biden issued white papers and executive orders for state policy makers to enact reforms reducing the prevalence of unnecessary and overly broad occupational licensing. that hurts workers and consumers. These three bills fall into this category. Please vote no on S.191 H.282 and H.350. Thank you for your time and consideration. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you for your testimony and efficiency. Any questions or test the fire, there being none. Thank you very much. I'll stay virtual here while Barbara Zap
zaepfell.
It's on virtually.
Okay. Apparently, we have some technical difficulties. We're gonna move down the list.
We're gonna take Barbara Smith Mark Martin m a r s t o n, virtually.
Okay. We have some technical difficulties on that 1 as well. We're gonna
Don Kennedy Davis virtually.
Okay, we cannot find Don Kennedy Davis.
we're gonna take Seamus Osegata, o s e a, g h d a h a in person? O'Shea.
You think of Who am I should be able to figure that out of my own. Thank you very miss Roche.
SEAMUS O'SEAGHDHA - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - Thank you. Good afternoon, members of the committee. This is the first time that I'm appearing, but I felt really compelled to come in and do so. because I feel like my rights my basic rights are being taken away from me with lightning speed. Just recently, the supreme court relegated my husband and I to second and class status, and I'm here today to do what I can to prevent my Buddhist faith from also being relegated to second class status. I'm here to oppose as a Reiki practitioner, and I'm a licensed massage therapist, oppose the two bills 191 and 282. I'm a former Catholic priest, and I have a master of divinity degree in Catholic Sacramento theology.
My husband and I are converts to Nietzsche and Shia Buddhism, and I currently lead a small Buddhist saga in the back bay where we pray together, and my hope is to become a Buddhist priest. Two months ago, I did training with my priest in Buffalo, Reiki training. We chanted which is central to our faith. It's the central mantra, but we laid hands on also chanting that mantra. We talked about the five Reiki principles, which are tied to the 5 Buddhist precepts. This is a form of Buddhist healing.4228 My commit my priest commissioned me at the end of that weekend, to focus my mission in Boston in exercising my Buddhism on Reiki for free, free of charge to the public, as my charisma, my expression of my religion.
Reiki is a, first and foremost, a spiritual practice. there are like, I don't have time to get into all of the history, but it's well documented. It's not fake news. It's real. I believe that these two bills, 191 282, with the inclusion of Reiki is unconstitutional. The act seems to violate both4266 the establishment clause favoring some4268 religions over others. As a4270 former Catholic priest, I did similar healing. We would do laying4274 on of hands in the sacrament of the sick4276 or charismatic prayer groups. We use the sign of the cross. Very similar in Reiki laying on of hands. Reiki symbols. I believe that there are a lot of similarities and parallels, but the state, if they pass this, is giving showing partiality, not neutrality, to some faith practices over others, so the establishment clause is an issue. I also believe that requiring the licensing of Reiki.
Puts an unnecessary burden on my free exercise of my religion. And disproportionately relegates healing within my Buddhist practice to a second class status. I have not seen before today or today for those who support these bills, Any proof or any evidence that this combat's human trafficking, I believe that the act under consideration is overreaching, unconstitutional, racially discriminatory in various ways, would victimize and disenfranchise far more people then it intends to4334 help. We should do everything as a community to put an end to human trafficking. That is the point I4340 understand of these bills. but we must do so in ways which respect and protect individuals' constitutional rights guaranteed to us by the US constitution, the state constitution, our religious freedoms, and a4353 ethnic and racial dignity. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank thank you, Mister Luche. Appreciate it. Any questions for the testifier? We're being done. Thank you very much. Alrighty. We're gonna move along here to Andrew Rosenstock, who's on virtually, is the Rosenzok?
SPEAKER30 - Howdy. Pretty close to Rosenzok, but you got a lot of trouble with names, so don't worry. Just great.
SPEAKER2 - -Yeah, no. My my pronunciation is terrible, sir. Give me 2 minutes.
ANDREW ROSENSTOCK - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - All right. Well, thank you to distinguished Board, and Tom Andrew, as we've already gone over. I was born and raised in Massachusetts, grew I moved back to Malden about two years ago. I appreciate the time and the intent that these bills are to provide more safety and support for people who could potentially be harmed. But the issue for me is that the current legislation does not really help the people who would be harmed, and it harms many people who would be helping other people. So I'm going to speak for myself, but I know that what I'm going to say is similar with peep many other people out there. So at this point, I have over 6000 hours of studies and serve locations. And each year, I continue to deepen my studies, both local and international.
And by studying in these numerous ways, most of which aren't even really here yet as Massachusetts in New England is very slow to grow. I'm able to offer various bodywork and somatic practices, and I get to help people hail and grow. and mostly people who've been let down by the current system, the system which currently controls the narrative, and that's kind of why we're here today. So if this law passes, not only am I out of work, and I can't support my family, but also the clients I work with who are benefiting from the work, they're now out of help. I spent the last 15 years working not just locally here in Massachusetts, but all over the globe, and nowhere have I had more issues around my practice than in Massachusetts. I guess a blessing that occurs to be here. These bills seem to be written by people who don't really understand the field, and yet they want to control the field.
Perhaps instead of re regulating what's outside the norm norms, the massage board could actually do more inner regulations and see to grow their own field of knowledge and awareness, which is, again, slightly outdated. This bill again doesn't just harm body work is that harms our families, and the clients who gain benefit from our work. And I didn't know if I'd have enough time, but I do. So I'm going to ask this last question. It's just very curious to me. After every time you guys or you asked that legislative chat, Are there any questions? And nobody seems to have any questions at all on your board. And so I'm just sort of curious. Is that because everything everyone says makes sense to you all, or is it a general lack of concern to learn more? it something else? You don't have to answer it because I'm out of time. Just kind of curious. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Well, thank you for your testimony. As a as a customer chair. We ensure that every member has a chance to ask questions, but we do make that inquiry every moment. So in this case, again, does any members have any questions for testifiers? Seeing none, thank you very4518 much for your testimony.
SPEAKER30 - Thank you all for your time and concern.
SPEAKER2 - Okay. I'm going to take Okay. This is gonna be 1 of those name situations. Miss Kelly, k e l l e y?
Antha, Afris Kelly, Ms. Kelly?
Alright. We're gonna come back again. Jim's Jim Noriega. virtual?
Alright. I'm gonna bounce to4556 an in person again as we Oh, here we go. We got someone.
SPEAKER32 - Yes. I was trying to unmute there.
SPEAKER2 - Alright. You got 22 minutes.
JAMES NORIEGA - UNITED STATES TRAGER ASSOCIATION - HB 282 - SB 191 - H.350 Yes. Thank you, chairs, Cronin, and Moran, and committee members for this opportunity. I'm testifying in opposition S.191 and H.282. No opposition on H.350. I'm the law and legislation committee chair for the United States Trager Association. We are Movement Educators, and we have 11 certified practitioners in Massachusetts. We support and agree with most of the some money you've heard in opposition to these two bills, and I won't repeat most of that. But I would like to emphasize a couple of points, I think, are critical
These bills would force licensing upon a wide variety of4606 disciplines and practices based on the model of massage therapy license. This is flawed in its basic premise because massage therapists sought and worked for many years to obtain their licensing. It was not simply forced on them against their will as these bills would do. Before their licensing massage therapy, massage therapy was taught in a wide variety of schools, programs venues. They were not standardized from one state or even one school to another, so Perhaps establishing an outside state board to set standards of education and testing makes sense for that situation.
But the Trager approach and many of the other alternative healing therapies as they're called already only have one recognized nationwide training program and standard. An outside board would necessarily be composed of people less familiar with that profession and not qualified to such standards, and those standards would at best be unnecessary and at worst harmful. In this case, even if the proposed advisory council and board would just simply accept the existing standards of our profession and the others, nothing would be gained. but a new layer of expense and bureaucracy for our practitioners and wasted administrative and enforcement effort for the state.
Another thing is that parties proposing licensing for a profession do have an obligation to demonstrate that such licensing will protect the public from specific harm, and that less restrictive methods will not suffice suffice, excuse me. But this has not been done. The Trager approach in these bills is specifically named as an occupation to be licensed as if we pose the danger to4717 the public. Yet there have been no complaints from consumers or other demonstration of harm from the practice of the Trager approach. There's never been a single case of our practitioners being involved in illegal activities in Massachusetts or any other state. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Sir,
SPEAKER2 - Sir, you're get you gave you extra time past the 2 minutes. I think you you understand where you're coming from.
SPEAKER32 - I'm sorry. Thank you.
SPEAKER2 - Thank you for your testimony. Is there any questions for test fire? There are being none. Thank you very much. I'd like to move on to someone in person if we could. I'm looking for Clark Reddick and Hilary
Garolitis.
Alright. I'm trying and Deb Fox.
Sorry about the name.
Alright. You got your 2 minutes peace. Please speak close to the mic so people in the Internet can hear you.
HILARY GARIVALTIS - NATIONAL AYURVEDIC MEDICAL ASSOCIATION - HB 282 - SB 191 - HB 350 - Thank you. Thank you to the chairs and the committee for hearing my testimony today. I'm here to speak against s at S.191 H.282 H.350 I come wearing a few hats today. First of all, I'm a former executive director of the National Ayurvedic Medical Association. I'm a Ayurvedic practitioner myself. and which is one of the modalities currently exempted in the massage license that's on the books here in Massachusetts. I also represent health freedom action in Massachusetts as their president working to encourage the growth of and acts to alternative and complimentary healthcare to all our citizens in Massachusetts.
Which includes many of the modalities affected by both S.191 and 282. I understand and sympathize with the initial intention of the bill to guard against trafficking, which we can all agree should not be tolerated and must be stopped. I disagree that this bill will have that intended impact and that it will, in fact, do little to curb the problem, but we'll create undue side effects that will impact thousands of people that are providing safe professional and much needed services to many thousands of our citizens. Sex trafficking needs to be handled by collective law enforcement and not by government mandates and licensing that not only burdens professionals named in the bill, but burdens the date by having to create, manage, maintain, and oversee.
What would have to very be a very unwieldy bodywork licensing board requiring experts in these over 100 to 150 potential modalities. The do not rise to the level of a profession that does harm, which is the intended purpose of the licensing board. The professions named within the bill are all on well-being and by nature and intention do no harm. This is excessive unnecessarily and unnecessary and ultimately costly There is a better approach. We have a bill in the in the bill from the health freedom bill 11329, house bill - 224, an act providing for consumer access to and right to practice complementary and alternative healthcare services. I implore you to oppose these bills and help us met pass this other bill. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you. Can you just pass the mic down if you could be so kind? Thank you very much.
CLARK REDDICK - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 350 - SB 1329 - HB 2244 - Clark Redneck with the committee for the protection and access the complimentary alternative health care, ought not pass all these licensing bills. I read the bill. I'm going to speak just to H.350 because I we can only testify to one or both, I guess, in two minutes. So this is my testimony for that There must be hundreds or thousands of Asian disciplines and lineages within the state. Honestly, it's really quite arrogant to try to co opt all things Asian. to protect it from whom. The bill makes it clear the real enemy of Massachusetts4971 bodyworker as a self appointed tyrants and with their bureaucratic machinations. Imagine all that Asia has to offer the world of CAM represented by five bureaucrats on a board.
These wish to set up Asian bodywork therapy schools to retrain people in dominant styles picking winners and losers into strolling in the process, the truly amazing and delicate ecosystem that is traditional Asian bodywork. Asian body workers are not criminals and don't present any serious risk of harm to public health, welfare, or safety. They don't need this board neither do Massachusetts citizens. By the way, this is not a grassroots roots movement. This is being pushed by an out of state cartel called the AOBTA. They just love to own all things Asian in Massachusetts. Imagine all the money. According to their law, anyone using anyone treating the body mind, emotion, spirit, or energy field may be determined to be an Asian bodywork therapist.
We all do that. At line 90, they state the law will5037 not apply to those licensed certified or registered and performing within their scope of practice. This means that if your profession is not currently licensed, you're out of luck and they're coming for you. Line 112, blocks it back and says nothing in this act prohibits a per person from engaging in a profession, not specifically named or defined. Really? because that's just what the act does, defines Asian bodywork very broadly, and then states that applies to you unless you're licensed. please support S 1329 and H.2244 that will provide natural healers safe harbor from these insane licensing bills. Thank5076 you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you very much. Next thing is yeah. Thank you.
Duncan. Yeah. Just get close enough so the people in5086 the Internet can hear you.
DEBORAH FOX - HEALTH FREEDOM ACTION MASSACHUSETTS - HB 282 - SB 191 - HB 350 - SB 1329 - HB 2244 - Deborah Fox here today representing Health Freedom Action, Massachusetts Committee for access and protection to alternative health care. These proposed bills of pass would be harmful as you've heard. to many legitimate professionals who provide unique and important services to the public while removing access to services from many mass residents to rely on them to retain balance and wellness in their everyday lives. As a practitioner for over two decades holding 3 board certifications, as well as an LMT, I have firsthand experiencing and witnessing results and not available through other resources. You've heard many here today, as an individual, I use holistic services on a regular basis.
It must be recognized that the effect of this proposed legislation by reaching so many unique and well established5139 modalities would crush nearly all ballistic professions in our state, depriving5145 practitioners, teachers, consumers, hospice programs, hospitals of important beneficial services and practitioners of their access to services. and practitioners of their livelihood. Often these services and the practitioners are the most valued support system in many situations, especially End of Life, this would be devastating. According to HFAMA, Health Freedom Action Mass, research indicates 49% of Americans use complementary and alternative care options, and consumers spend over $30 billion annually out of pocket on these services. The use of these important beneficial services speaks for itself and are vitally important for public to have open access to.
Many modalities are grassroots and could not have become what they are under misinformed regulation, including ABT. Because of the scope of practice of the expressions covered, these bills differ from another in important ways and diluting them into whatever few common elements They may have and accurately defines them. After several cycles of similar bills, I urge the committee to take effort in understanding the importance of these services being accessible to the public for the greater good. It isn't often until a family or an individual has turning point event and alternative services turn their life around that it makes sense. HFAMA supports safeguarding the public and has worked extensively to health freedom and mass. I urge you to support our bills in public health, S.1329 H.2244 and vote against S.191, H.282, and H.350. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you for your testimony. Any questions for the test fires? hearing none. Thank you very much for your time. We're gonna move on back to the virtual world. We're gonna try virtually Lynne O'Neil Clark, Ms. Clark?
Ms, miss Clark?
1st clock unmuted. Are you there?
Alright. I see miss clock in the screen, but she's muted, and I got no video.
Can we can we can we miss Clark, can you hear us?
Alright. we're having some technical difficulties with you, so we're gonna jump around again on the virtual list to see who's doing okay here. So we're going to circle back to
Alright. We're gonna try Melanie Nance virtually. It's a virtually Melanie and a NCE Nance.
Oren Pillinger, virtually, virtual person Oren Pillinger.
Alright. We're gonna try Amy
Manger, Manger, m a g e r?
SPEAKER26 - Yes. I'm here. Thank you so much for your time.
SPEAKER2 - Alright. You have your 2 minutes.
SPEAKER26 - Thank you so much. Let me pull up my letter.
AMY MAGER - ACUPUNCTURE SOCIETY OF MASSACHUSETTS - HB 350 - HB 282 - SB 191 - Thank you, Chair Cronin, Chair Chen, and members of the joint committee on Consumer Protection And Professional Licensure. My name is Amy Mager, DACM, licensed acupuncturist, in practice in the Commonwealth since 1991 I am here representing the Occupuncture Society of Massachusetts as a legislative coach here asking you to report H.350 out of committee favorably. ASM supports meaningful standards for all practitioners involved in patient care in the Commonwealth. We support the specific licensure of ABT, Asian body work therapy as it is verified and specific a unique form of care that requires at least 500 hours of curriculum.
Including biomedical anatomy, physiology, pathology, eastern and TCM philosophy as well as ethics requirement. I've submitted written testimony with more information. We believe all providers need to be vetted and licensed or didactic instruction, clinical experience and examination by appropriately vetted institutions. Thank you for your consideration. to maintain a high level of practice as demonstrated by licensure in the Commonwealth moving H.350 out of committee favorably, At the same time, I am here to express my opposition to H.282, which is problematic at best as it categorizes multiple practice practices under one license with a lack of specificity in understanding how some of these modalities are practiced.
The overarching term, quote, alternative therapies, end5463 quote, is not well understood by the general public, and I, as an integrative health provider of complementary medicine am unclear about the unintended likely ramifications for healthcare consumers. Sometimes in the best interest of what we want to do, we cause problems, such as a licensed Accupuncturist performing Tueina, which we are allowed under our license, being sued by the massage therapy board, and it took her a lot of money and a lot of time to get permission to do something that is within our licensed scope of practice. Thank you so much for your help, time, and skill, and for your taking the time to listen to me as you listen to so many today. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you for your testimony. Questions for test fire from Creddy. There being none. Thank you very much. I'm looking for Mary McCallister virtually. Virtually, Mary McCallister.
SPEAKER1 - --
5514 SPEAKER265514 -5514 to5514 this. Barry, you're up.
SPEAKER10 - Oh. To
SPEAKER19 - some of you, you're -- Okay.
SPEAKER1 - 2
SPEAKER2 - minutes are hard5518 to figure out if that if that's gonna work or not. Alright. We'll try it, but Yeah. Okay. We'll try it.
SPEAKER18 - Mary?
Okay. You're up.
SPEAKER2 - We can't hear her.
SPEAKER27 - Amy, we need you to mute. Amy, can you5536 mute?
Oh, I'm hearing her. So it's not gonna work, sweetie.
SPEAKER2 - k. Well, we tried something new today.
SPEAKER27 - say quickly that they're we're doing we are working with other5551 organizations to make sure we do not do a broad overreach.
SPEAKER18 - Alright. We are
SPEAKER2 - And thank you, miss Pat. We'll we'll keep trying something new every time we do testimony. We're gonna try to circle back a a Ethea Afris Kelly I understand you're dialing in, so it's gonna be a little bit of a technical issue, miss Kelly. You're muted. Could you please unmute yourself?
Yeah. This individual's dialed in, so we need you to please unmute on your side.
Alright. We're gonna come back to you. I know I can see you on the screen and and oh, did you manage to unmute? No. You're still muted on our side. I can see you on our screen with you. We have some technical difficulties.
Alright. Tracy Sullivan. Viritrol. I'm sorry. Viritrol, Tracy Sullivan?
SPEAKER36 - Yes. I'm here.
SPEAKER2 - Can you hear me? You got you 2 minutes. Yes, I can. 2 minutes, ma'am.
TRACY SULLIVAN - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - Thank you. Cheers and vice chairs and members of the committee. My name is Tracy Sullivan. I'm here to oppose HB.282 and SB.191 and act regulating alternative healing therapies. I'm in agreement with previous statements5636 opposing these bills to regulate5638 alternative healing therapies, and I'd like to add the following. I've been working in health care and volunteering and teaching Reiki classes excuse me, to volunteers and employees in the health care settings since 2011 I've seen the profound benefits that this service provides to the community and especially the health care community.
In fact, there's been Plenty of clinical research today that has shown that Reiki and other complementary services relieve stress, decrease pain, and increase well-being in patients that receive sessions while being in in the hospital. So Reiki itself is a very gentle practice of hands on or distant healing for stress relief and relaxation. There is no tissue manipulation involved. I also want to speak for a friend of mine, Nancy Monk with her permission who is works at Berkshire Medical Center in Pittsfield, Massachusetts, and Fairview Hospital in Great Barrington, Massachusetts. as a Reiki teacher and a volunteer for Reiki services.
She has been teaching Reiki one Reiki two Reiki Masters to the staff there at those two hospitals. And those people that she's teaching then go on to offer Ricky to the patient community there. So there's many lineages of Reiki. And if these bills were passed, This would prevent a lot of these people that are5745 working in hospitals providing the services to people who really are the people that need it most. that would end this practice for many of those people. So, again, I'm here to oppose those bills, and I appreciate your time and listening to my testimony. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you very much for your testimony. Any questions for test fire? There being none. Thank you for your5770 time. I appreciate everyone's patience on this because we're trying to manage some5774 folks in here and a whole lot of people virtually,5776 and some people just phoned in not actually using the Microsoft Teams video. So as you can tell, we're having some challenges here on the logistics. Jeffrey Hot we've got a virtual 1. Jeffrey Hodges, Mister Hodges. Do you want to pronounce that correctly, virtually?
SPEAKER37 - Close enough.
SPEAKER2 - Alright. You got 2 minutes.
JEFFREY HOTCHKISS - REIKI COMMUNITY HEALTH & WELLBEING - HB 282 - SB 191 - HB 350 - Thank you. Thank you, chairman Cronin and Chair Chan. My name is Jeffrey Hotchkiss.5805 I am the founder of Reiki Community Health & Wellbeing5809 in5809 Portland, Maine. I have practiced Reiki for 22 years. I have volunteered and5815 been paid to practice in5817 many settings senior living facilities. corporate wellness fairs for homeless veterans posted by the VA, people in recovery, patients with anxiety and chronic pain, and more. I have taught doctors, nurses, and paramedics how to do Reiki. As an EMT, I used Reiki for self care. and for patient comfort when appropriate.
I joined the group doing Reiki in New York City on 911 anniversaries. for hundreds of5847 people every year soothing a5849 traumatic time for them. If I've been required to meet the requirements in these bills. It's unlikely I would have been able to serve all these people. I'm gonna truncate my written testimony now and just say that I concur with the vast majority here that are in opposition to S.191 and H.282 and also to put in a plug for the safe harbor self-Freedom Act and which we implemented here in Maine in 2019, and it's working just fine. And I'll put the statute in the chat5892 and also will forward it as supplement to their committee email. Thank you very much. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you very much for5903 your testimony. Any questions to testify? Giving you down for the community. Thank you for5907 your time. I'm looking for another 1 that's virtual, Daniel Seltz, s e i t z.
SPEAKER38 - Hi. I'm I'm on. Thank you. That's Daniel Sites.
SPEAKER2 - Thank you very much. You have your 2 minutes.
DANIEL SEITZ - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - Great. Thank you. My name is Daniel Seitz, and I'm here testifying in opposition to H.282 and S.191I've been involved with alternative and complementary therapies for the last 35 years as an educator, regulator, and also an accreditor having higher been hired in the late eighties to set the licensing board for acupuncture under the board of Medicine. What I'd like to say is that these bills seem like a an example of a solution in search of a problem. These non invasive healing practices have, overall, an excellent safety record And that's just something that's confirmed by malpractice insurance rates.
The numbers of complaints that consumer protection agencies receive. Moreover, these fields, as you've heard in previous testimony, are very effective as self regulation. They take setting standards, certification standards, accreditation standards very seriously. The board composition in this bill is highly problematic and poorly conceived, having giving a large way to just massage therapists, risks conflict of interest, obvious conflict of interest, restrain of trade, but also the members would lack the expertise needed to oversee a large number of diverse professions. If consumer protection is really the you here.
There's a much better approach, the so called safe harbor or health freedom bills that have been discussed by a couple of previous testifiers. These set forth responsibilities and also prohibitions in relation to unlicensed practitioners. And these bills now exist, I think, in6028 16 or more states around the country. Again, they6032 create a very effective framework for6035 protecting the public and at the same time do not unduly burden unlicensed professions. So in short,6041 these bills would create a very expensive and ineffective bureaucracy that would not really serve the public's needs or those of the practitioner. Thank you very much. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you for your testimony. Any questions have aspired for the committee? Hearing none, thank you very much for your time. We're gonna try someone in person now
Marilyn Kochafith,
c h r v a t h.
Okay. Madison White,
and I presume that's is it I have here also Alex
was to just bring your buff up because you're next to each other on my sheet.
Alright. You got you you you got 2 minutes a piece. Alright.
MADISON WHITE CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - Hello. My name is Madison White. I am a nurse for over 10 years specializing in psychiatric care, hospice, mental health, and also post op chronic care, long term, and geriatric care. Burn out caused me to seek energy healing in 2012. IN 2016, I became6113 a professional energy healer and spiritual guide. I received yearly training and recertification as an energy healer and spiritual guide is required from a national organization in the Modern Mystery School alongside hundreds of other professional practitioners from all over the world. This recertification is vigorous, requiring professionalism, organization, as well as serving our clients with compassion and human dignity. A state run certification program will effectively stop the service the thousands of well meaning practitioners.
Provide easing physical and psychological pain when we've already when we already have a constricted healthcare system. These bills will essentially make us unemployed, and many of us are women. For those practitioners who are seeking licensure in their specific modality. They may seek training, licensure, another state recognized certification that is appropriate and reflects their unique modality and services as has been done with massage therapy. There are hundreds, maybe, thousands of different types of modalities to try to lump them all together into One license program will only hurt all of the practitioners and those they serve. Many of my clients are nurses and health care professionals.
We've come out of an international pandemic and lockdown has been one of the greatest mental, emotional, and spiritual strains our generation has ever seen. 50% of Americans seek out and utilize alternative and holistic medicine, mainly for things that our western medical model has been unable to treat let alone cure. Overall, the suicide rate in the United States has increased by 30%6203 between 2000 and 2020.One in three women and one in four men experienced domestic violence. Nearly 20% of adults and teens have a mental health diagnosis, equivalent of nearly 50 million individuals in our country. Holistic in alternative services, that that you have heard today provide care, and we should not stop our ability to provide these individuals with the services that they need in order to help them heal their psychological and physical pain.
ALEX SPINE - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - HB 350 - Hi. My name's Alex Spine. I'm a senior spiritual guide healer and teacher with the modern mystery school. I currently operate out of Newton, Massachusetts. I've helped thousands of people in the past 10 years, including veterans Those with PTSD, depression, anxiety, eating disorders, those in rehab, those who are homeless getting back on6258 their feet, I even had to cancel an appointment with a veteran from Afghanistan today for a Reiki session, but being but if these bills pass, I won't be able to help them at all.
So this is my second time coming here to speak, and I'm in opposition to all three bills. And just very quickly. I just want to a couple of points have been said, but there's a couple that haven't been. So the first one, as you know, is there have been zero convictions of Reiki practitioners for human trafficking and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. The second point is that the stated intent of these bills is to regulate human trafficking but almost every practitioner who would be regulated by this legislation is self employed and, therefore, completely incapable of being human trafficked. So if these bills pass, this would put me as a I would be unemployed as a woman owned business.
Also, the final point I want to make, which hasn't been made, is that the last three presidential administrations, Obama, Trump, and Biden have issued executive orders for state policymakers to enact reforms, reducing the prevalence of unnecessary and overly broad occupational licensing that hurts workers and consumers. So every year in Massachusetts, it's estimated that there's an unnecessary licensure cost or that unnecessary licensure cost our state economy over $411 million in lost pro productivity. So something else to think about. Thank you very much. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER19 - Thank you
SPEAKER2 - very much for your testimony. Any questions with testifiers? They're being done. Thank you very much for your time. I'm gonna go back virtual now to try to find Carolyn Ruderman. Miss Ruderman?
SPEAKER41 - I'm here.
SPEAKER2 - Good to hear you. You can I can hear you.
SPEAKER41 - Okay. Good.
SPEAKER1 - 2
SPEAKER2 - minutes.
CAROLINE RUDERMAN - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - HB 350 - Fabulous. So I am I'm Reiki professional in Northampton and Greenfield, Massachusetts. I a large component of my work is with clinical Reiki. So I work in an oncology department while people are receiving their6392 chemotherapy infusions. So I have a private practice where people pay out of pocket. They value my care enough that They want the emotional support and the mental support of healing. But, you know, I work in this medical setting where people who6412 are dealing with cancer, they usually are got have tremendous medical bills as it is. And the strain of them and their family who are dealing with major health difficulties can be pretty significant. You know? And that That program has been paid for by the social work the oncology social work.
To start to limit and start to craft licensing around this, they would just pull the plug. The hospital would completely pull the plug on any kind of program like this, and the amount of people that we serve in that medical licensing. I’ll tell you doctors and nurses are watching everything I do And if they, for a second thought that Reiki, or me, were harming the patients, that place is so patient driven, I would be out of there, like, stuff past, and they watch me all day with patients. And, you know, I think that they recognize that what I do supports healing. So I just want to say as another self employed single woman, in this in this economy, you know, this work makes a difference in my life and in a lot of other people. So thank you for your time. I post these bills. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you for your testimony. Any questions from the committee members? We've seen none. Thank you very much. We're gonna let's see here. We're gonna try to find virtually actually, we're gonna go in person here. We have a Janice Reddick in person.
I know it's been a it's already been pretty long on the the technical difficulties. I thank you for your patience.
SPEAKER39 - I'll be quick.
JANICE REDDICK - CONCERNED CITIZEN - SB 1329 - HB 2244 - believe it ought not pass. Chairman, Vice Chair's honorable committee members all. My name is Janice Reddick, and I am here as a consumer. My health was compromised by COVID. Making me vulnerable to autoimmunity. I developed crippling arthritis in my life as I knew it was over. an unlicensed complimentary and alternative healthcare practitioner saved me. Using a combination of methods, the proposed legislation would no doubt destroy this. He was able to completely restore my health. My rheumatologist actually said, you don't need to come back. My practitioner's success comes from a unique system he has perfected. using bits and pieces of countless methods, it could not be licensed. Regulation obliterates creativity and innovation. Being controlled by your competitors.
It would be so much worse. 10 years ago, you convened an interagency task force. It issued recommendations. Has anyone introduced bills to implement any of these? The report stated, these recommendations are neither complex nor resource intensive. The task force is confident that these will save resources and connect as a model for other states. No one opposes the recommendations. Why won't Senator Montigny and Governor Healy introduce legislation to implement the findings of their own task force. The report also states data collection is critical to quantifying the problem. Are we doing that? Demand reduction was a key element in the plan. But these builds address only supply while missing the design nine out of 10 suppliers who work elsewhere, for example, in a motel venue. I will leave it to others to discuss the proper okay. Please support build 1329 SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
H.2244
SPEAKER29 - Thank you. Bye.
SPEAKER2 - Thank you for your testimony. Any questions for the test fire? Do you have any none? Thank you for your time. We're gonna go virtually again. We're gonna try to find Julie Taruman, Tauburn.
SPEAKER41 - I'm here.
SPEAKER2 - Hey. I can hear you. You got you6677 2 minutes.
JULIE TABERMAN - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - Great. My name is Julie Taberman. I am a Reiki master teacher in Boston. I've been teaching and practicing Reiki professionally since 1998. I am also a licensed occupational therapist in Massachusetts. And I want to speak about the value of licensure for OT versus the burden that we present for a Reiki Master. As an OT, I had to go through two years of graduate school, a lot of training, physiology, and pathology, and neurology, and everything else and I had to complete long months of affiliations and pass a test and to in order to become licensed. And I6723 think that's necessary for people in allied health professions where you can do so much damage by mistake if you don't know what you're doing.
But Reiki is very different because Reiki is actually a spiritual practice. Reiki practitioners treat patients by just laying their hands on or hovering over the body? And that's it. It's very simple to learn and to practice and it's very effective. My clients are people from all walks of life, very diverse, as are my students, Ricky is offering to people the people who come to me are coming because of stress related diseases and problems, sleeplessness, anxiety, difficulty regulating their emotional system. People receive such relief from these symptoms from Reiki, and it's important for it to be remain affordable. If I had to pass the tests and so forth to be licensed, it would be affordable for me, and for most of my students who are also practicing Reiki. So I really hope you will see the sense of not passing these bills. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER15 - Thank you
SPEAKER2 - much for your testimony. Any questions from the committee members? They are being done. Thank you much for your time.
Thank you. I'm gonna bring up a person someone in person here, Cara Littres,
SPEAKER42 - Hi.
CARA LATREZ - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - I'm very happy to be here today to speak against the house and senate bills that seek to limit access to alternative health therapies. A statement will be very brief and direct, I hope. The bills as proposed do not address human trafficking, period. However, they do seek to limit people's access to alternative health services. Without access to these modalities, many people will suffer. They will feel pain. They will feel distress, and they will have worse health outcomes overall, which will make our community sadder. So for the commonwealth, please oppose these bills. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you. Any questions for that Spire? they're being done. Thank you very much for your testimony. We're going back to the virtual world, Clara Diebold, d e i b o l d.
You're muted. I can There we go.
SPEAKER43 - Can you hear me can you hear me okay now?
SPEAKER2 - Hey, can you hear you okay? You got 2 minutes.
CLARA DIEBOLD - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - HB 350 - Okay. Thank you for the opportunity to speak in opposition to all 3 of these6908 bills. My name is Clara Diebold. I'm a client, partitioner and teacher of traditional wellness methods. I'm certified in several methods including Reiki. All of my techniques are completely safe. The worst outcome I can produce is no improvement, but that rarely happens. My clients generally experience relaxation and symptom reduction. Healthcare Providers evaluate clients, diagnose disease and treat particular conditions. I don't do any of that. My professional ethics demand that I myself as a healthcare practitioner, and our society clearly does not consider me to be a healthcare provider or therapist of any kind. No health insurance policy covers my services.
My services cannot be included as medical deductions for tax purposes. My client records are never used in accident or personal injury legal cases. I carry liability insurance. It's very inexpensive. According to my professional ethics and the insurance taxes and the legal system. I am not a health care provider or therapist of any kind. However, the sponsors of this bill want you to treat me and my colleagues like healthcare providers in this one area of licensure. Why? consumer complaints are rare, and we're never the motivation for this bill. Each time this bill is brought forth, there's an outcry. Should a profession be licensed just for the sake of licensing and in a way that damages the profession? Should a profession be licensed just for the sake of collecting fees? Please don't take our services away from clients and students Supporting these bills would be the exact opposite of consumer protection. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you.
SPEAKER2 - Thank you. Any questions to testify as members of the committee? Hearing none, thank you much for your time. We're7041 gonna stay in the virtual for another moment with Kathleen Burns. This burns.
SPEAKER44 - Yes. Can you hear me?
SPEAKER2 - I can hear you. You have 2 minutes.
KATHLEEN BYRNES - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - SB 1329 - HB 2244 - Aright. First of all, thank you all very much. for your attention to all of us this afternoon. Multiple7062 years' worth of efforts for everybody here means this is a utmost importance. And I'm standing on this eyed of opposition to 191 282 as both a receiver of these services. And because what I received was so magnificent, I have become certified7085 in multiple representations of an alternative perspective to wellness. The last7093 two and a half years have shown us that the present system is not enough. I really don't think there's argument anywhere that what we have used as Medical well-being is limited to what the fullness of humanity and the fullness of community needs. To put a human trafficking issue in with services limit using that as a reason.
To limit the capacities of supportive services to psychological well-being. And energetic well-being makes no sense. Human trafficking, I'm a former social worker. Human trafficking is a very viable and an well taken care of it is well intentioned, but it has nothing to do7145 with the services being offered by these people who stand in integrity to be courageous enough to offer wellness7153 processes to people where the medical system can offer nothing anymore. To put all of that in one lump sum and say no, you're limited and you got to do it by the standards of people who aren't even educated in this perspective of well-being is ludicrous. Please, do not vote in support of not 191 282 but do support safe harbor for 1329 and 224. So people like myself who benefited and have paid out of pocket for 35 years and I still have to pay for the medical system that doesn't provide me anything. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you. Any questions, members, committee? There being none. Thank you for your time. We're gonna go back to try to find someone in person here. Carolina
Cordaff. Cordaff. Carolina Cordaff. You're still in the room? Alright. We're gonna come back to her if she comes back. We're gonna go again to virtual. Lanka7220 Ward? Miss Ward? Is it Mister Ward? Lanka?7224
you are muted, ma'am.
SPEAKER45 - Can you hear me?
SPEAKER2 - We can hear you now. Thank you.
SPEAKER45 - Okay.
LENKA WARD - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - I am here as a patient. My name is Lenka Ward. I live on the cape. I originally found the Czech Republic, and I came to the United States 26 years ago. I was a math teacher. I had my master's degree in teaching English as, like, language and music from Charles University Prague. when I was in the middle of trying to get my second master's degree from her extension school in mathematics. I got bitten by a tick and that basically completely decimated my life. I had a7275 terrible case of Lyme disease. I almost die twice. And please do oppose these bills because now I'm a gardener and I cannot go back to teaching. I'm fairly financially stable.
And if you take away my entire health care team, I'm just going to die because I cannot manage on my own. I can't manage the incessant pain that I was in. now I'm almost pain free, and I have tried so many of these therapies that would be completely eliminated. And That's all I can say. Like, I have seen so many people out of, you know, all this entire list. And I never encountered7320 anything like human trafficking or any of that. And so just please just help me have just a little bit of it life that I have been able to make for myself in this just complete insanity, just unbearable pain that I was in 10 years. That's it. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you so much for your testimony. Any questions to ask the fire? hearing none. Thank thank you for your time. I appreciate you taking time to tell your story.
We're gonna try some folks here that's having some technical difficulties were looking for Lynn or Neil Clark, Lynn or Neil Clark.
SPEAKER47 - Hi there. That's me. Can you hear me?
SPEAKER2 - I can hear you now. You have 2 minutes.
LIN O'NEIL-CLARK - CONCERNED CITIZEN - HB 282 - SB 191 - Okay. Thank you. Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to give our testimonies.7374 I want to voice my strong opposition to S.191 and H.282, as it does affect over a 150 modalities or 150 different styles of RACI practice. That will not be fairly represented with the proposed board of massage and alternative healing therapy. There is no risk of harm to the public for these modalities, restriction that you can only be licensed if you receive training at a program licensed by the state.
We'll put many healthcare practitioners and teachers such as myself out of business and nonunemployment because of these burdensome fees. I have been a Reiki master since 1988 A lot of what I do is pure volunteer. Recently, I was just in Winchester Hospital and I was assisting a patient with a end of life. Doctors and nurses were in there continuously Completely supporting what I was doing. Many of them are also trained in Reiki. This is peace and comfort. there's spirituality attached to this. How can you try to regulate something like this or even put it on the same page with human trafficking? I just I can't even wrap my head around it.
I'm not sure if anybody on the board has ever had a Reiki treatment or an integrated energy therapy treatment or any of the other modalities that are out there, but your clients, the only thing that they're asked to remove are their eyeglasses in their shoes. We don't have to even touch them. But7462 post COVID, most people do want to be touched because it's nurturing, it's calming, it's peaceful for them. I just really hope that you can take these bills and really see them for what they are. Not helping anybody here. potentially putting women like myself out of business. This is just not good. This please don't pass. This SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER2 - Thank you very much. Any questions from members committee? Hearing none. Thank you for your testimony. We're gonna try
answer I'm gonna try again an an Anthras Kelly who's by telephone, not on a video. Can you try to please unmute me trying again here?
Alright. We're not we're still having technical difficulties on that 1.
Just to check, anybody in the room physically here that hasn't testified, they would like to testify?
that's physically here.
Alright. If you give us 1 quick moment, we gotta go to the virtual room here because I I understand we've got dropped on and dropped off during the course of this hearing in the virtual we live in so we could have a a few moments. Thank you.
Alright. Well, we're having a little bit of a technical issue regarding an individual that's listed as meeting gap did not put a name into7573 the Microsoft Teams system nor today. We can't tell who you are, we can't see your name. It's pretty7581 obvious. Right? So we have a person named meeting guest. Could you please message over to us who you are? Okay.
Alright. The individual list of this meeting guests is not identifying that themselves so we can't figure out who that is on our sign up sheet.
We've staff has reviewed the entire room regarding people wanna testify. There is no additional testimony testify errors in the room. We did go through the entire list at which people had signed up beforehand, less someone's else out there that we haven't seen yet.
Alright. It hot.
Alright. At this point, we have heard from all testifiers. There is no being taken to bill. So in case you are wondering, we're not taking action7663 on bills today. We are the chair is seeking a motion to close today's hearing. So moved by
oh, represent Moschinos second by representative Donahue and second by Chair Cronin. All those types a i, aye, Dodge Habit, the hearing is now closed. I'll see you all in a week's time.
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