2024-03-08 00:00:00 - Joint Committee on Ways and Means
2024-03-08 00:00:00 - Joint Committee on Ways and Means
(Part 2 of 4)
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - Okay. As the, attorney general is leaving, I wanna call up the secretary of economic development. And as she comes, what I would ask is the new members, not new members, but the members who arrived here late on the committee, If you could introduce yourselves, what we did this morning is rather, Senator Edwards or I introduce in members. We let members introduce themselves and talk about where they're from. So let's start with, rep Duffy. Oh, and rep Duffy, if somebody can just, share the microphone with you so you can do that.
REP DUFFY - Hello. My name is Pat Duffy. I'm the state rep from the 5th Hampton District, which is the city of Holyoke. I apologize for being late, but I hope you can understand that I came across this beautiful Commonwealth. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - Thank you, senator Miranda.
SEN MIRANDA - Senator Miranda representing the neighborhoods of Hyde Park to the south end on the pool of lav corridor in the city of Boston. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - Thank you. Rep Montano?
REP MONTANO - Hi, rep Samantha Montano. I represent the 15th Suffolk in Boston, the neighborhoods of80 Jamaica Plain in Back of the Hill. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - Representative Blaise?
REP BLAIS - Hi, everybody. State Representative Natalie Blais, First Franklin District, which includes 18 communities in Franklin County. It's good to be here, chair. Thank you for hosting us. Thank you. Rep Doherty?
REP DOHERTY - Thank you. I'm Carol Doherty. I represent the 3rd Bristol District, of Taunton and Easton and share Taunton with representative Haddad. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - Thank you. And representative Lippert Garabedian.
REP LIPPER- GARABEDIAN - Good morning, everyone. Kate Lippert Garabedian, 32nd Middlesex, Melrose-Wakefield Malden, and it's a good afternoon. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - Oh, it is. It is. Okay. For the members, realizing that it's the 12 o'clock hour, if you go downstairs, there is lunch available, when you like to take a break. So143 just feel free when the moment strikes to head downstairs, have something to eat, come back, and join us. And with that, welcome, madam secretary.
SPEAKER8 - Yes. Can you hear me? Yes.
164 VYONEE164 HAO164 -164 ECONOMIC164 DEVELOPMENT164 -164 Thank164 you so much, Vice Chair Ferrante, and, thank you to all of our incredible168 legislative team. It is truly an honor, to be here with you all today. It's very special. Happy International Women's Day, and also happy 400 years to Gloucester. I loved being there last year at the cruise port,183 but it's even more special to be in this, incredible building with the history, around the room. I love seeing, former mayor Carolyn Kirk, who is our very own MassTech CEO, on the wall and in person. And, also, I think this mural behind you199 all is very apt for the moment in time we're in. How do we build203 not just for today alone, but for tomorrow as well?
So very excited to get a chance to talk with you about this budget and how it sets us up, not just for today, but really for tomorrow. So, good afternoon. And, so for those of you who don't217 know me, my name is, Yvonne Hao, and I serve on the I serve as the secretary of economic development within our Healy Driscoll administration. I'm very grateful for this opportunity, to talk about the governor's FY 25 budget. I want to start by thanking Chair Rodrigues, chair Michael Woods, and all of the members of the committee, including their amazing staff for all of the 100 and 93rd General Court. In addition to all the important work underway for FY 25, the administration and the legislature have worked together to produce meaningful results for the state's economy through multiple FY 23 supplemental budgets, the FY 24 budget, and the most significant tax reform257 package in decades.
We very much look forward to continuing that productive dialogue on this spending bill and the governor's recently filed economic development bill, the Mass Leads Act. So, the governor filed this bill last week, and it tries to bring to life our economic development plan, which is called Team Massachusetts Leading Future Generations, and that was adopted by the administration in December. Our two budget recommendations for economic development are made in conjunction with this plan and the Bill. And the plan remains true to our focus, and I think the attorney general emphasized this a lot in her testimony. And it was very inspiring to hear about her work. But we are all working together across the administration and with the attorney general on these, priorities of equity, affordability, and competitiveness. We want to do this across every region of our state, all of your districts, and, of course, for every, 1 of our 7,000,000 residents who live here, regardless of background.
We want to make sure that we achieve our vision, which is that Massachusetts is the best place for every person and every kind of talent to live their best lives, thrive, and have great careers. So our plan framework is broken down into three key priority areas. The first is325 fundamentals. For the fundamentals, this is really what underpins all economic growth. For our economy to be successful, we need to have a solid foundation that enables students, residents, businesses, and communities to succeed. The Healy Driscoll administration recognizes that state investment in local economic development priorities can convert343 blueprints into new jobs, new businesses, and lots of new opportunities.
So our H2 proposes two and a half $1,000,000 for the350 urban agenda grant program. This competitive grant program supports local partnerships in urban neighborhoods across Massachusetts. In FY 24, 28 grants were awarded, including projects like Lawrence's Community Educator pipeline, which is a workforce development initiative that both creates career pathways for low-income Lawrence payer parents and also diversifies the educator workforce in public schools. The urban agenda is a component of our wild wildly popular community, one Stop for Growth, which under secretary Stobel runs. It's a single application portal and collaborative review process of 12 grant programs that make targeted investments in local economic initiatives. We've been across many of your districts to announce those awards, and it is inspiring to talk to all of the local businesses and people about how these awards impact their lives in the communities.
So last year, in partnership with the legislature, we funded the Massachusetts downtown initiative for the first time in, the operating budget. In H2 we now propose continuing this high-impact program for city and town center revitalization by level funding the program410 at $600,000. The412 downtown initiative is also a part of the committee's 1 stop for growth. Our office is also seeking funding for, siting, and permitting ombudsman within our executive office. The current permitting process in Massachusetts consumes too much time and too much resource. It increases the cost of doing business in our state and makes us less competitive.
So this permitting ombudsman will be fully dedicated432 to improving our offices of capacity and expanding our state's ability to offer guidance and leadership relative to permitting and development prospects across the state. This is another initiative inspired by our planning process. We heard a lot of feedback about this across all of our different listening sessions. Finally, in the fundamental section, our office is committed to, continuing to support our rural communities through the work of our director of rural affairs, SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - Anne Goby. Woo hoo. Yes.
HAO - They're right there. Okay. So, rural affairs director Anne Goby has been on the road. She's already visited about 60 communities, 60 of our rural communities since June, and she's provided technical assistance to over 100 municipal offices. From FY 22473 to FY 24, rural and small towns have seen an 84% increase in grant dollars awarded via the Community 1 Stop for Growth, and we wanna continue, supporting these important rural communities. So that is the first pillar of fundamentals. The second section is all about talent. So we are so lucky in our state, and and, top of that, that list is our amazing talent.
So how do we retain and attract the world's best talent here in our state? So the people of Massachusetts have long driven the state's economy and have been our biggest competitive advantage. H 2 makes strategic investments into the state's talent pipeline for people across all backgrounds. We're proposing $7,500,000 for the Community Empowerment and Reinvestment Grant Program. These competitive grants develop, strengthen, and invest in community-led efforts such as workforce development to bring519 positive economic outcomes to communities that face historically disproportionate challenges to economic growth. In FY 24, 67 nonprofits were awarded these grants. 37 of those nonprofits were in gateway cities, and 33 were classified as minority business enterprises. Community empowerment is an essential avenue for supporting community-driven and culturally component culturally competent economic development.
Now to advance Massachusetts' standing as a global talent hub, we're proposing to pilot an entrepreneur-in-residence program. This is for international talent. This pilot will552 be led by Mass Ventures, our quasi, and it aims to retain highly skilled international graduates in Massachusetts by partnering with higher education institutions like UMass on h 1 b visas. There are over 70,000 international students in Massachusetts contributing 3,200,000,000 to our state economy and many of these students leave our state because of the complexity of the federal visa system. So Massachusetts can work within our curl current federal visa system and help them find ways to navigate it to stay here legally in our state and to contribute to our economy.
So the goal is to develop this program and continue to scale this going forward. Our budget also includes 1,350,000 for internship and mentorship programs at Mastech Collaborative to open up opportunities for students and entrepreneurs looking594 to succeed here in Massachusetts. And finally, also through Mastech, we wanna train our workforce for success and careers in key industries. So the advanced manufacturing training program provides training to unemployed and underemployed individuals for in-demand roles at manufacturers across the state in coordination with training providers and employers. We have requested 2 and a half $1,000,000 to continue offering this important workforce development So those are all talent-related initiatives.
So section 3 is all around sector-specific, proposals. So, supporting businesses that power the state's economy is, an important thing to do, and we628 are doing this by sector. And we have several components here. First, we want to lengthen our lead in key sectors where we already lead. So this includes life sciences, health care, advanced manufacturing, robotics, and AI. We also wanna catalyze new leadership sectors and become new global leaders in areas such as climate tech as well as in tourism and the creative economy.
And last, we wanna make things easier651 for every single kind of business, here in our state. So our state's GDP grew to approximately $750,000,000,000 in 2023. We are actually, roughly the 30th biggest country if we were a stand-alone country. We're bigger than Ireland and Austria. This output is fueled by a dynamic innovative economy that stretches across several key sectors, and our H2 proposes investments to lengthen673 our lead in these areas. So included in H2 is a $10,000,000 transfer to the Mass Life Sciences Center.
This supports the investment fund, which is critically important to the overall success of Mass Life Sciences as it supports the center's operations, internships, and key grant and loan programs. These precious funds complement capital funds and tax incentives as part of the overall strategy for life sciences, and we wanna propose to extend this for another decade through our economic development bill. Last year, through the workforce development initiatives, the Mass Life Sciences Center placed 587 interns with employers statewide and provided hands-on experience for this next generation of life sciences talent. It also awarded over $2,000,000 in grants to 40 low-income schools for, lab equipment and also provided teachers with all kinds of educational development.
The center also promotes increasing diversity and equity in life sciences. Last year, the center helped fund early-stage female entrepreneurs, and they raised over $24,000,000 in follow-on capital. And this was called the Mass Next Gen Initiative. The center was also critical to our735 state's successful selection by the Biden administration to host ARPA's investment, investor catalyst hub. We had the first lady here 2 weeks ago to celebrate that hub win. The proposed investment in the mass life sciences is a critical element of the life sciences 3 0 initiative, and we wanna reinforce our position as the undisputed global leader of life sciences globally. Next, we wanna propose funding, and establish programs that we know are proven and have high ROI, and these are762 through MasTec.
So first, we764 propose 2 and a half $1,000,000 for MasTec's Innovation Institute. This institute supports industry-led growth around Fintech, artificial intelligence, quantum computing, robotics, and blockchain, and more. We're also seeking $1,200,000 for the Center For Advanced Manufacturing. The Center For Advanced Manufacturing partners with public and private stakeholders to develop and implement the Commonwealth's manufacturing plan, fostering and strengthening the conditions necessary for growth and innovation in Massachusetts. Its efforts last year led to Massachusetts winning the microelectronics hub through the Federal Chips and Science Act. We were 1 of 8,798 hubs to win, across, the country.
So this802 is a big win for our state. And finally, we wanna bolster cyber resiliency across the Commonwealth, and we're proposing $950,000 to fund the MAS Cyber Center. This helps us protect sensitive data, increase cybersecurity awareness, and respond to emerging threats within Massachusetts. Beyond this, we also wanna make sure that we take advantage of the upcoming 250th celebration of the founding of this country. So we have a generational opportunity to capitalize on this, by catalyzing our tourism sector. So, through the h 2 budget and capital funding proposed in the economic development bill, we can continue attracting visitors from across the country and around the world and boost the Commonwealth's profile.
In addition to845 all of these sectors, our office is determined to847 make Massachusetts a place where every kind of business849 has the resources to thrive. Our small businesses employ nearly half of our853 state's workforce and comprise most of our businesses. So h 2 proposes investing 7 and a half $1,000,000 for the Small Business Technical Assistance Grant. This effective program leverages a robust statewide network of nonprofit organizations to offer technical assistance, education, and access to capital for small businesses, particularly minority-owned businesses. Our h 2 proposal doubles down on this administration's commitment to growing the SBTA program, representing a 2-and-a-half $1,000,000 increase over the879 fy 24 GAA.
The budget also provides $400,000 for the commercialization seed fund, which885 is administered by Mass Ventures. This program provides small grants to help scale technology developed at Massachusetts Research Universities, largely benefiting UMASS-based grantees. Additionally, the budget positions EOED to execute the vision to establish a new centralized portal for every kind of business to access state resources. This new portal, which we are referring to as the business front door, aspires to operate as a concierge service for new and existing businesses seeking to expand in Massachusetts, and it transforms the way that businesses work with the state government. Okay.
So that was the pillar all around sectors. We're now gonna move into the last section, which is around the Office of Consumer Affairs and Business Regulation led by under-secretary Leila D'Amelio here. So, Ocabra, as it's known, has 5 agencies. And, the work of OcABRA is to protect and empower consumers through advocacy and education, and want we wanna ensure a fair playing field for the Massachusetts businesses that our agencies, regulate. For Ocabra, under the leadership of, secretary D'Amelio, we're proposing 2 2 and a half $1,000,000 to support key components of OCABRA's consumer protection tools, such as consumer outreach efforts, the home improvement contractor programs, and the data breach repository as well as Lemon Law Arbitrations.
The division of banks led by Commissioner Mary Gallagher there oversees 143 banks and credit unions and 12,400966 non-depository licensees968 and conducts examinations of state-chartered banks, credit unions, and division of bank-licensed nonbank entities to ensure a sound, competitive, and accessible financial services environment throughout the Commonwealth. We're proposing $27,000,000981 in total for the division983 of banks.
The Division of Occupational Licensure led by Commissioner Sarah Wilkinson, Unfortunately, she is not here today, but, she is, has a ton of experience, and we're very lucky to have her in the role. She's responsible for the oversight of 26 boards of registration,997 the Office of Public Safety and999 Inspections, and the Office of Private Occupational School Education, issuing1003 approximately 500,000 licenses with over 250 license types over a broad range of trades and occupations.
Htwo's $30,700,000 budget request supports ongoing work, including modernization efforts. This budget will also establish a new reciprocity unit to assist licensed professionals moving to Massachusetts with the transfer of licenses from other jurisdictions, another talent strategy from our economic development plan.
Then we have our division of insurance led by Commissioner Gary Anderson here, who regulates a top 15 market in the US for annual domestic premiums and the 27th largest insurance market in the world. Our $17,500,000 proposal supports the regulation of an insurance industry that writes over $70,000,000,000 in Massachusetts premiums annually across all lines of insurance.
Next, we have the Department of Telecommunications and Cable led by Commissioner Karen Charles right here. She regulates 222 telecommunications carriers and 8 cable providers in Massachusetts. Last year, this, department investigated over 2,000 complaints and secured more than $270,000 in consumer refunds.
We're asking for $3,500,000 to support the department's ongoing work to increase language accessibility and transparency for its constituents and stakeholders. Finally, last but not least, we have the division of standards, responsible for testing and inspecting all devices that measure goods for sale in the Commonwealth and ensuring consumer protection standards that are, met for all of our weights and measuring devices and for the use in the1092 sale1092 of food, fuels, and other products.
This division of standards is now headed up by1096 commissioner Dave Rod Rod Rodriguez right1098 here. We just promoted him. He was named to the post about a month ago. This division will also be assuming regulatory and operational oversight, including inspections for public electric vehicle charging stations during FY 25. So we're proposing $3,000,000 in H2 for the division of standards. In closing, I just appreciate your time today, and the opportunity to testify on behalf of the HEALI Driscoll Administration's h 2 budget, and to talk about economic development.
Our FY 25 budget aligns closely with our focus again on our priorities of equity, affordability, and competitiveness, and it also does so in a fiscally and financially responsible manner. We're looking forward to this continued partnership with all of you in the legislature on both this budget in H2 and also going forward on the economic development bill. So with that, I'm happy to take any questions. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - Thank you, Madam Secretary, and thank you for your visits, up here to Gloucester. I know we've seen you here a couple of times, and we appreciate you being here you being up here. And, for those of you who don't know that are from the district, the secretary and I worked closely together. The speaker appointed me to the Economic Development Planning Council that, which was responsible for putting together the economic development plan. And you were kind enough to shout out to former Gloucester mayor, Carolyn Kirk. And for those of you who are from the state house, before Carolyn Kirk was a state employee, she was mayor of Gloucester, and you can see her portrait up over, the balcony there by the second window. It doesn't look like a window because it's a shade down, but the second window. And, Gloucester has a proud tradition of mayors with1196 second chapters. Earlier today,1198 you might have met, Safathea Romeo Taecken as well, who is assistant director now of Fish and Game. So we're very proud of, the mayor who was here, Greg Virga, and our mayors past and present. So thank you, Carolyn, for coming today. Let's open it up to questions. Before we open it up to questions, I'm just going to ask 1 to start it off and then we'll open it up to members.
FERRANTE - My question madam secretary is we talk a lot about the importance of tax credits to retain business here in Massachusetts and to be competitive. Could you just talk a little bit about which tax credits you think are the most important right now for the Commonwealth for us to fund?
HAO - Yes. So, that is a very important question. That is not part of the budget. The tax credits are part of the economic development Bill. So let me let me zoom out for a second and say that we have so many strengths in Massachusetts, so many strengths. We've1264 talked a lot about those, including our1266 talent, all of the educational institutions, our amazing health care system all of the work that you, have done as a legislature has set us up for a lot of economic success. Having said that, we are living in a very competitive time. As we did the economic development plan, one of the things we did was look to see what other states were doing.
In our state of Massachusetts, we wisely many years ago, developed some incentives and tools, including tax credits. Over time, we have not updated any of those. We've not grown the number, so the dollar amount has not grown, and also the structure has not grown. Other states during that time have caught up and, in many cases, far surpassed us, both in the dollar amounts and the structure. There1312 is a chart that I like to look at because it's just data, and it's quite interesting. I took a picture and had it on my phone because it's quite compelling.
There's a chart here, which we'll probably get to when we get to the economic development Bill. But this chart shows in 2022, the amount of money states spent on1331 tax incentives to companies to1333 create jobs. So this is a chart1335 that shows in 2022, New York in their Excelsior jobs program spent $6,000,000,000, 6.073.9000000000 dollars. The second state was Ohio. They have a JobsOhio economic development grant. They spent $3,000,000,000 on tax incentives to companies to create job growth, $3,025,100,000,000 Then we have North Carolina. They have a job development investment grant.
They spent $1,500,000,000 Then there's California. They have California Competes, their tax credit program. They spent $401,600,000 In 2022, does anyone know how much Massachusetts spent on similar tax incentives to companies to create jobs? So let's just recap. There's New York at 6,000,000,000, Ohio at 3,000,000,000, North Carolina at 1,500,000,000, and California at 401,600,000. How much did Massachusetts spend? That's pretty close. We spent 10,600,000.
So we don't have to spend the same amount as they do because we're awesome, but we are far off right now. So we are living in a competitive environment. Every day, I meet with CEOs, and I also meet with small companies and family-owned companies. I just talked to a company in South Deerfield who, out of the blue, got an email from Mississippi saying we have a ton of tax incentives for you. We think you should move to Mississippi, and we have a space and a site for you if you need to expand. So we are under attack. And the dollars again, we don't have to be as high as other people are. We are far off right now. And the other thing is the structure has not changed.
So when we looked at the structure of our programs, there are many constraints and processes that we put in place many years ago that may have made sense. But today, what it means is that for any of these companies to get these tax credits, this $10,100,000 of tax credits, they have to go through1450 weeks weeks months months of paperwork paperwork and processes and waiting and different meetings and other meetings and other meetings, whereas other states can give them an answer in days. Here's your tax credit. We made a decision. You have this. And so both the dollar amount and the structures are important. Again, we don't need as many as the other states, but they are important.
So to answer your question directly, in the economic development bill, we've proposed, some important tax credits, in particular around life sciences, which is an area where we lead today, and other states are trying to catch up to us. When we took leadership of this industry, the leaders at the time in 2008 were New Jersey and San Diego. We did a $1,000,000,000 under, Governor Patrick, and we took leadership from them, which means that someone else can take it from us.1497 And we were just in North Carolina last fall with a group, and they are very clear. They tried hard to win ARPA H's hub. They are we have a giant target on our back. They are trying to become the life sciences leader. And they succeeded in a lot of ways, but we won the hub.
So, those life sciences tax incentives are very important as part of this reauthorization. The other set of tax credits that are in the bill is around climate tech. We are already a leader in fighting climate change. How do we have the same global leadership that we do in climate tech that we do in life sciences, where we lead not just in fighting climate change, but in creating all kinds of jobs, all kinds of companies, and all kinds of startups across every region of the state for every kind of person? To do that and to be competitive, we need to have these tax credits. California has already been very aggressive.
New Jersey has been very aggressive. New York has been very aggressive. I think we will become the global leader in climate tech, but we need these tools to be able to compete and win. Then the other piece is our general tax incentive program, the EDIP program, and the economic development incentive plan. We're proposing some slight increases, but more importantly, we're proposing in the Bill some changes to the1565 structure to make it more nimble, more quick,1567 more simpler for companies to access. So so so those are1571 the ones I would highlight and those are part of the Bill,1573 not H2 if that answers your question.
FERRANTE - Thank you. No. That's important because, as everybody on this committee knows as we look at the budget we also look at the economic development well, the other bond bills. And we decide what priorities are and where they are1587 and where we're gonna save to spend and, where we're gonna put focus.
HAO- I think one thing I would just say is, you know, my, I think many of you know my background is in business. So I've had a long career in business and I feel very, very honored to be, in this state government role in the last year or so. I've learned a ton and just feel so lucky as a citizen of Massachusetts to have such wicked smart people working on behalf of our state.
But one thing I think that's interesting is that in business, I have been a CFO, and you always want to be fiscally responsible. I have personally been on the end of trying to, you know, figure out how to make payroll, how we're going to pay expenses, and all those things. One distinction I think is very important in our office is to think about economic development. These items in our budget,1633 H2, and also the items in the economic development Bill, I don't1637 think of these as expenses.
In business, we distinguish between expenses and investments. When you make investments, you expect a return on your investment. So for example, our budget for H2 is $140,000,000 or so. We already make $250,000,000 or so in return because many of Undersecretary D'Amelio's areas generate revenue because of all the work they do in licensing. So you're spending $140,000,000. You're already getting 200 and some $1,000,000 back, and that doesn't include all of the benefits we have from supporting small businesses, supporting employment, having people stay in the state, paying income tax, having companies stay here, paying income tax.
So I would think about this budget as these are investments we're making that are going to pay for themselves multiplefold, and the economic development Bill is similar. Again, in the large context of our state, we have a $56,000,000,000 budget. This H2 for economic development is 140,000,000. That is 0.2%. So these are not large dollars relative to the overall, but they are high ROI dollars, and that's the same for economic development Bills. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - Thank you. Alright. After that, who would like to fire off with the first question? Rep. Adad? May I have mic for
REP HADDAD - you? Thank you. Thank you, Madam Secretary. I hope this is three really quick things. First, please put me on the list of people who are complaining about cable. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER8 - We have Commissioner Charles here. She will answer that question.
SPEAKER1 - Great. Oh, I just wanna be
HADDAD - I'm a complainer. Secondly, I wanna say thank you to Undersecretary D'Amelia. I think you know that we've been working on, a hoisting license to help the vo tech schools. All of the vote tech schools get you some more people out into the workforce very quickly. So thank you. Then the third, the Ombudsman for permitting. I wish it was here 3 years ago. So, I think you know that your colleague as the secretary and the governor offered your services to me multiple times over the last year because of the difficulties I've been experiencing with getting Prismium, which is a multinational amazing company to come to Somerset. So, let me just say, whatever the ombudsman does, could they control local I know there are probably people here who are gonna shoot me on the way out the door, but local municipalities are not helping.
We have to find a way to make sure that there's a clear path. We almost lost that business 3 times. You know, nervous breakdowns. And it's a great company and it's going to do great things for Massachusetts and, you know, clean tech, and it's going to be a green building. So that's just my 3, you know, to me, cable is very important. But no. To say thank you, to your undersecretary and to say help us with the local communities to make them understand that an appointed board should not be able to stop a good business from coming to Massachusetts. So well you.
HAO - I'm assistant vice chair had added, thank you so much for your leadership and your tenacity and your partnership on, that very, very important project. You know, what's interesting is that in taking this role, I spoke with every one of my predecessors, almost everyone. Under the previous secretary, Greg Bialekki, he started this permitting on Budsman and it was very successful. Everyone I talked to said this was a wildly helpful role and somehow over time, you know, things changed and somehow just went away. So this is not a new idea. It's a proven idea. We're just trying to bring it back, and we need it now more than ever given the complexity of these projects. I don't know if, under Secretary Stobel, you want to say anything to add to that. You've been more involved in
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 1 - No. On that specific project, thank you so much. Again, as the secretary said, you have been incredibly helpful. I know it's not. And I know in addition I know you're working with many folks in state government, but the Mass Office of Business Development has also been working very closely with Prismian to try to help them. I'll also just say that and I think this was mentioned in the previous testimony, but the governor did stand up the Commission on Energy Infrastructure Siting and Permitting. So this is a1902 group that's meeting very, very1904 often, and we will have recommendations by the end of this month because the governor was very clear that she wants to make it easier and quicker, for siting and permitting around these infrastructure projects. So it's a lot of work. It's complicated, but it is something that we're working on to hopefully improve not only this project but projects all across the Commonwealth. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - Great. Thank you so much. Thank you. Repagarty?
REP HAGGERTY - Thank you, secretary, for being here. You touched base briefly on the Mass Downtown initiative program. Can you talk a little bit more1937 about that? I know that that's critical to a lot of folks sitting up here in1941 front of you. We had great success doing a lot of the planning during the pandemic and figuring out ways to make sure all of our downtowns come back from some of the impacts of the pandemic. But, we continue to have challenges in a lot of downtowns. We want to make sure that we're supporting you so you can support MDI and make sure that our downtowns, and cities come back.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 1 - Thank you so much. This is a program that we're incredibly proud of. You're right. It was very, very helpful during COVID. I think a lot of municipalities stepped up. They were asking for help. How do we invigorate and get our downtowns back? It's a program that continues to be very successful after COVID. So as the secretary mentioned in her testimony, this had not been an independent program within the budget. We'd taken the money out of mass Works, to fund this, but we recognize the importance of this project for really municipalities to think creatively, which they are doing, on how to make their downtowns better.
We know that one size doesn't always fit all, right? So we want to allow municipalities to create their plan, but it's a program that we're successful. I think the amount that we've recommended, is good. Of course, we take more money, but I do think it's reflective of the money that we need to support our municipalities. But thank you. I know we we've awarded Gloucester, 2 MDI Awards in the past couple of years. So and I know we've been around to a lot of your municipalities and districts, with great ideas. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - Thank you. Any okay. Natalie Blay and Brett Broley.
BLAIS - Thank you, secretary, and to your team. It has been such a pleasure to work with you. Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all more thanks. Thank you to the Healy Driscoll administration for creating Goby's position. I just want to hail what Anne has been doing, for the 181 rural communities across the Commonwealth. You could not have brought a better person on board than Anne and she has just been tenacious For the 181 rural communities across the Commonwealth Coming off of that, I do just want to two questions.
One we saw in the last census was that we lost population in Berkshire and Franklin counties only. I'm concerned that in 10 years, you know when we get to the next census, we will see that we have lost more population. It is a direct result of not having jobs, not having a local economy, not having strong public transportation, not having enough health care, strong public education system. So first, I'd be interested in your thoughts on how best and how this budget supports rural communities and economic development. Second, I would be remiss if I did not talk about the affordable connectivity program.
As this office knows all too well, we have just brought broadband to2125 Western Massachusetts, and the failure of the federal government to act to extend this program means that 366 1,000 households across the Commonwealth will lose a $30 per month subsidy, that allows them the access to the Internet that we have fought for and we have pushed people to for jobs, for health care, for education. So I just if there's a signal that we can send today, to the federal government about the importance of this program, particularly for the municipal-owned broadband networks where there's only one program.
There are no tiers. It's one flat amount and for a town like Charlemont, where 70% of the broadband users utilize the ACP program, and are going to lose that funding that could be going into the local economy, and now are going to be going to broadband. If you could just talk a little bit about the importance of that program and what the loss of that funding will cause for residents of the Commonwealth. Thank you.
HAO - Well, you know, rep Blay, that, Western Mass is near and dear to my heart. I'm going there tomorrow, actually, and I'll be there on Monday and Tuesday as well. Charlotte Lemont is the home to one of my favorite, spots. But let me answer your first question first, and then let me pass it off to the team, for the second question. The first question is on our rural, towns and also, western Mass in particular. As we're doing the economic development plan, we looked a lot at this question, and we had several people, on the planning council, who were from that area. And we did a bunch of meetings with folks from there as well. And it is a really important topic for our state.
I said this I say this all the time. Even to people in Boston,2239 I say this, which is that our state cannot do well unless Boston and Cambridge do well. And when you we, when we look at the state metrics, we are very proud. We're the wealthiest state. We're the highest income per capita state out of any state. Pretty remarkable. We just succeeded in Connecticut. When you dig into that, there are wild disparities. We are the most one of the most highly income-unequal states. It's something that we are not proud of and we have to fix it. When you look at where that income inequality comes from, it is by ethnicity and by educational background. It's also a lot by region.
The income gap between Boston and Cambridge and some counties in Western Massachusetts is, like, 30 or $40,000. That's nuts. We should be able to do better than that. And so if you look at our economic development plan and Bill, there's a lot of different initiatives to support, to support economic development in all of our regions, especially in western Mass and rural economies. So and then and then there are some things here in this, H2 proposal as well. Some things I maybe would highlight. One is that well, of course, not in our area, but Western Mass in these areas needs the same thing that everyone else needs, which is housing, transportation, and childcare.
So those are, in other cabinet, members' portfolios, and we are supporting their work on that and working very closely with them. In our office, we have a bunch of proposals around, for example, creating a rural designation and, being much more thoughtful about how we prioritize and allocate resources to rural and agricultural towns that need more economic support. So that is under, under secretary Stolba's, area and with an and with Angobe. The other thing is that in many of2346 the sectors that we are focusing on, we2348 think there are many opportunities, particularly out in Western Mass and some of these towns.
So, for example, we were intentional about choosing life sciences, not just for the labs and PhDs in Boston Cambridge, but expanding throughout the state in biomanufacturing. We were just in Worcester yesterday. Worcester is now the number 15 hub of life sciences and has a ton of biomanufacturing jobs that have expanded outside. So how do we push, and expand that industry to other parts of the state? Climate Tech, we are so excited about it because here in Gloucester and in Fall River, you have offshore wind. But throughout the rest of the state, we should have battery production.
We should have solar panels. We should have concrete production. And so we just have had, some startups as they expand out of Boston Cambridge build plants in Devons, in Fitchburg, and how do we get them even further out west to Bidsfield and Springfield? And so, and then the other thing that we're, very, very excited about and there's a bunch of advanced manufacturing initiatives as well. Again, that should hit Western Massachusetts.
The other thing I'm super excited about is the creative economy and tourism. And we've seen, some glimmers of success there, and there are so many awesome jewels that we have out there. We haven't pieced it together, and we haven't done enough to support them. And we have the 250th coming up, which is a chance to tell this bigger story and to support all of our restaurants, all of our towns, all of our small hotels, all of our museums, all of our theaters.
And so how do we actually, support that and have that economy be even more robust? So there are lots of ideas in the plan and the bill, and then, and then a bunch of initiatives here as2438 well. I'd also say that a lot of the businesses we have out in Western Massachusetts are small businesses, which is why we feel so passionately about the SBTA and increasing that. Again, these are small dollars, but we just spent an entire afternoon and evening in Springfield meeting with all these small businesses. It means a lot to them to get advice and coaching on how to start my business. How do I get the legal forms done?
How do I do marketing and find customers? How do I do the financials and make sure I pay my taxes? These seem like simple things, but they are life-changing,family-changing, and business-changing for these small businesses. And they employ people, and they and they're a huge, lift for people to kind of have social mobility. So that's why we feel passionately about that in this plan. On the ACP, this is a national issue. Governor Healy is very aware of this issue. We've had many conversations with her about it.
She was just in DC 2 weeks ago, and she has2490 made many calls and also has been in very close coordination with our federal delegation about urging Congress to renew ACP. There's good news and bad news. The bad news about Massachusetts is that we're pretty low on ACP adoption versus other states. Other states have taken way more advantage of this program than we have. So that's the bad news. The well I don't know, guys. I guess that's bad. The good news is that we have been trying to figure out some ways to, kind of offset some of the impact of this program. So let me hand it over to, commissioner Charles.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 2 - Thank you very much, Madam Secretary, and thank you so very much for that question. So, you know, we saw this cliff coming, for some time now because Congress wasn't acting on this issue. So what we did, what the Department of Telecommunications and Cable did under the support of, the undersecretary and the secretary. We've reached out to NECTA, which is the New England Connectivity Telecommunications Association of New England.
They have a host of Internet service providers, and some wireless providers as members that are also providing ACP. We ask that pull to pull them together, their members together, so we can have a meeting with them so we can understand what they are doing or how they are planning to rate to retain those consumers that were part of the ACP. Are they coming up with alternative programs, alternative initiatives? $30 is a lot of money for a lot of families. You know the lifeline program is only $9.25 so it doesn't quite meet the criteria that the ACP. The financial criteria that ACP does to date. So we have our first meeting with Comcast scheduled for next week.
All of their members would like to come in and meet with the department individually because they don't want to share their, initiatives across the board with their competitors. But our first meeting is with Comcast next week, again, to understand exactly what initiatives, and programs they're creating on top of the low-income programs that they have to date to capture those families that are currently on ACP through Comcast. We're hoping to do that with other providers across Massachusetts to understand how we can retain and make sure that consumers in Massachusetts can stay connected because that's the most important thing. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - Thank you. Representative Libra Gerhabedian?
LIPPER-GARABEDIAN - Thank you so much, madam secretary, and to your team. And I was actually in Devon's just yesterday for a TUE committee site visit. Really exciting work going on there. I just perked up when you mentioned blockchain as one technology that your executive office is familiar with, and I know that that was true for your predecessor and that Mastech Collaborative has been engaged in this space. And you may know that the legislature has now a bicameral blockchain technology caucus.
And I just wanted to put in a plug for continuing to look at that as an application within government functions, particularly when it comes to something like business registration or occupational licensure. And you talked a little bit about friction, registration, or occupational licensure. You talked a little bit about friction with folks who are trying to engage in commerce and get their government credentials to open a new business or to confirm that they have an occupational license that we recognize here.
I know just to our south in Rhode Island, the secretary of commerce there has been working hard to stand up this kind of technology as a database that can reduce friction, really enhance how that incredibly important consumer base is interacting with us, and that we're providing the services that they're looking for to continue to build on the economic development component that they have. So just a plug, you're welcome2706 to build on that if you'd like, and happy to always be in touch about that.
HAO - No. We2710 love that. Secretary Tanner in Rhode Island and I are buddies, and we have spent a lot of time talking about this. She has been not just a national leader, but a global leader on the topic of how to, use blockchain in smart ways for government. She had Leila's job before she had my job in Rhode Island, and she and Leila have also coordinated on this topic. And, MasTec with the Innovation Institute does a lot of work on this. So, I love that we can collaborate and am happy to follow up more. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - K. Are there other questions from members on my right side?
You mean to tell me that she did such a good job that nobody has in question?2749
SPEAKER8 - Everybody wants lunch, vice chair.
SPEAKER1 - Yeah. Yeah. I'm figuring that out. Alright. So wait a minute, rep Vaughn.
REP VAUGHN - 1 quick question. Thank you very much, madam chair and secretary. Can you speak a little bit about, the COMMBUYS portal and how we can reimagine that for the future?2766 As far as small businesses, we have a, I think, a a portal that is outdated and, a lot of small businesses, that are trying2776 to, you know, transform and do business with the state and, municipalities, I think we need to take a look at.
HAO - Well, Rev Vaughn, this is not the first time this question has come up about state procurement. One of the things I talk about, and it's in our economic development plan, is when I came into this role in state government, I didn't know what to expect. And I was like, wow, is there like a magic wand? Is there some giant pool of money? Like, we have magical powers. And it turns out that's not the case. I wish it was. But we have we do have important, powers in state government.
One of those very important powers is the state as a customer. We spend a lot of money, and we can shape the market and lead the market with how we spend money, including spending money with more diverse and small businesses. So I wish I could say that this was under my control. It is not at all under my control. This is under the A and F department and the office of the supplier over OSD. Is that what it's called? So there it's under A and F. And I know Secretary Gorkewitz is very committed to this topic, and they have been doing a lot of, work to try to figure out, how to make it more, easy for small businesses to compete.
The other thing is that the governor has issued an equity assessment across the cabinet to look at every single secretary where we spend money where is it going and how we make improvements to be more equitable with with our state procurement. The other thing I will note is that in our economic development bill, we did try to tackle some of this through this, mass surety bond proposal, which is a way to help, smaller, more diverse.
Businesses compete especially for construction projects where you have to have, usually, to compete, you have to have a large amount of, kind of assets to be able to insure and, and to kind of be able to make a bid. So we're trying to find ways for the state to help, smaller and more diverse companies compete, and that's in the economic development Bill. But I would urge you to talk to Sergei Gorkowitz. I know he feels very strongly about this, and we do too.
VAUGHN - Thank you very much, and appreciate all the work you're doing, in the life sciences and technology department. You know, RTP is kind of our technology department. You know, RTP is kind of our Cambridge research to Hango Park in North Carolina. So anything we can do to further make sure that we're competitive and stay number one in that market would be great. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - Okay. Senator Comerford?
SEN COMERFORD - Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Secretary, I think one of your, secret sauces is that you love this Commonwealth so deeply that every time you're in a region, you do make the people in the region feel, that you are there for them and that your whole team is to their well-being. I know that's true. How lucky are we, that we have your leadership and your stellar team? And I echo Rep Blais, thanks, Director Gobi, for that position and for the fact that your plans include centering on rural communities as well as other communities. It is extraordinary.
I wanted to build off, my great colleague Ripley's question around,2966 population decline and just point to this pretty chilling study, or series of studies that come out that came out that I know you know about where, they're predicting the2977 hollowing out of many communities across2979 the United States, but especially in rural, Western Massachusetts, northern Berkshire and certainly northern Franklin County and, towns. It caused reports or reporters, to put a moniker on them called2995 the ghost towns. Right.
So they're saying2997 that in, 2,100, these towns will be unviable. Greenfield, Northfield, many towns I represent with REPLAY and others. I know you know that, and I know your advance you know, you did the work you were doing before that study came out. It was public. So you already narrowed in on the fact that we have to be 351 cities and towns, and all boats have to rise. I'm going to quote you forever that we can't, you know, that our communities need to rise together and that we can't only think of Boston and Cambridge's well-being. It has to be all of us. So you said earlier that you don't have a magic wand, but, I wish you did.
I have. And if so if you did have a magic wand, you and your team, and you were going to speak to that study directly, in the next 5 years, what would you do? let's say 10 years, the next decade. What should we be doing in rural Western Massachusetts and other rural communities in the Cape and Islands? What specific steps should our state take and should our legislature support, to defy that study so that people who come after we say those people were awake, as Ripley said, to population decline? And we're not gonna let our communities become unviable. They will become unviable. They will close. Schools are already closing. As you know, governments are going bankrupt. Like, things are happening all around us in these small, poor, rural communities. So 10 years, what should we do?
HAO- So, so thank you so much, senator Conifer Coniferford. We're so grateful for your partnership, and, I do love the state. And traveling around, we have so, many awesome regions, so many awesome cities, and so much talent across our state. We're very lucky. I do pay a lot of attention to demographic trends and population trends. It's very important. And some very smart people I know wrote an op-ed that I keep on my phone open at all times with 11 ideas of things that we should do.
I have this open on my phone right this moment because I think these are all not inevitable. We can take a proactive stance and do things. So many of these 11 ideas are actually in our economic development plan and bill. Some of them we hadn't thought of because they're, like, creative and awesome. So some of them, we need to find a way to make them happen. But, it is something that we think a lot about. I would say, you know, there's big things, and then there's unfortunately, I think there are big things, and those big things take a long time.
But we need to get started, and we are getting started. And then there are small things that probably will have less of a bit of an impact, but we can do more quickly. So the big things we all know, we should get east west rail and get transportation that would change the game in so many ways. We need to work on housing and we have a housing challenge in the3179 state. If we had more affordable, like, you know, housing everywhere, it would make it much3183 easier for people to live in different places. And, things like broadband that, you know, will make things more accessible. So there are big things that take time, and we're working on those. I think the small things are, and we were just in the cape last week.
Tuesday. We were just in the cape on Tuesday, and they asked the same question. I think one of the things we have to think about is to have a healthy economy, we have to have a diverse economy. So right now, when we look at some of these, these rural towns and you have population declines, there's not enough of a diversity. So figuring out what is the right mix for each of our different areas and some of it could be tourism, but then you have the off-season, and you need to find other things to sustain you during those off-seasons. Can you complement tourism with life sciences or climate tech or with education, with hospitals? And so figuring that out,3232 I think, is important. One of the things that3234 we, proposed in our economic development bill under MassTech is the idea to put in $100,000,000 for, grants for regional tech hubs.
The idea here is to challenge regions to tell us what you think should be the area that you wanna lead in your region. So Springfield, for example, came and said we want to be a quantum leader. Worcester said we want to be a leader in bio-industrial manufacturing. So how do we as a state help regions work together as a team to figure out where they think they can have a competitive advantage? Then how can we fund that as a state using, this proposal that's in our economic development Bill? So I don't know if Anne wants to add anything to that, but it's not inevitable. Smart people I know wrote that, and I agree with those smart people.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 3 - Ditto. So the one thing and I know that Rep Blais heard me say this. There are two kinds of people. People who live in rural communities and those who want to. And the work that this administration is doing is making sure that people will have an opportunity to do that. And laying that groundwork and the article that you, Replay, and Rep WIPs put in the paper. And I don't know if your colleagues have an opportunity to read that, but I would encourage that every 1 of you should. Because those are the things that we need to do. So you know what you know what needs to be done and it's up to us to have, the fortitude to make those things happen.
HAO- The one other person I might wanna call out on my so and the other thing I'll say is Senator Comfort is that I agree with you on that as we are extremely lucky in our state not just to have incredibly wicked, smart, talented legislators, but also3334 to have folks in our team. I came in not knowing what to expect. We have3338 an awesome, wicked, smart, very talented team, and we've added we made some important additions, I just want to highlight Ditko Jibril also. Ditko comes to us from the city of Boston, and she is 100% full-time in our office focused on small and micro businesses, particularly ones that are family-run, women-run, and, minority-run. She has been out and about in a similar way that Anne has been to help support that sector of the economy. So we have a wicked awesome team. They're all here. They did all the work. So I just try not to embarrass them too much. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - Okay. Other other questions? Oh, Sally? I'm sorry. Rep. Currents?
REP KERANS - Sally's fine. AMF. Secretary, thank you. You do such exciting work. We see each other in the garage at crazy hours, but, I was at the MassBio, breakfast, and it was extraordinary. It was kinda like a rock concert for the life sciences industry. It was phenomenal. So just because you mentioned transportation and housing as the three-legged stool, climate, transportation, housing, economic development, four I would love you to come to3408 my region. I would love3410 for you to, whisper in the ear of your colleagues in the administration support for restoring the only downtown bus stop in the town of Danvers, which went away. And we're working hard to bring it back so that we can have a revitalized downtown and3430 an essential component, which is public transportation, we're building 146 units of housing. So please come to3441 Danvers. I'll show you that building. We'll get great3445 food, lots of coffee shops, and maybe you can come and see our bus stop and what we hope to do. I thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER9 - Well, I mean, I
HAO - thank you. I've been3455 to Danvers many times with my family. So I'm already a fan. I just haven't been maybe with you, but I would love to take you up on that invitation. And, I think it's transportation, and secretary Tibbetts Knut and I work very closely together. She just kicked off last week, I think, the kind of a council now to think about the future of transportation of which buses and downtown buses are part of that consideration. So, that is a cross-cabinet initiative with some external folks as well. They have we have the charter to come back with specific recommendations before the end of the calendar year.
So that is transportation. Housing Secretary Augustus will be up next. I'm sure he will get many more questions, but he has proposed this very ambitious $4,100,000,000 affordable homes bill, which has a lot of very important ideas in there that we hope to get your support on. And there's also a group there, a housing production committee that he has kicked off that is cross-cabinet with other folks involved. Then you did not mention, that child care is we are the most expensive state in child care, and our workforce participation rate is one of the lowest in the country. It also is, lower than the national average.
It has not come it's lower than the national average. We're the lowest in the country. It has not come back to pre-pandemic levels, partially, I think, because of the unaffordability of child care. The childcare tax credit was a big part of the tax bill that was passed last year, but we still need to do more work. So secretary, Teltweiler just kicked off a child care task force, which, has secretary Jones, myself, and him co-chairing with, again, a broad set of people. We are going to come back at the end of the year with specific recommendations.
Climate is the existential crisis of our time, and Chief Hoffer Secretary Tepper and myself, the Clean Energy Center, all are working very closely together on that as well as on climate tech as an economic growth engine. So these are all topics that are, you know, are big important topics that we're trying to work across our, our administration on with all of you. And I would love to come to Danvers. So let's do it. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER15 - Thank you.
SPEAKER1 - Yeah. Other questions? Senator Miranda?
MIRANDA - Thank you for coming to my district. Met with me separately. You've done a presentation Good food. Echo Dev. So I feel like I've asked you a million and one questions all of which you've answered with your team. However, I had a question about the community empowerment reinvestment grant program. And, you know, it's been doing great work in my district, but we've seen a serious3607 decline. At first, it was 20,000,000, then it was 15,000,000. Now it's 7,500,000 that's been, recommended.
And I just want to know why there was such a drastic cut. It's one of the few examples of funding that doesn't take a lot for community organizations to tap into. The follow-up question was about the grant program award last year was for three years, which I believe you know, I was a nonprofit leader, so grants that last more than one term or one fiscal year are super important. But does that mean that 2026 and 2027 will be the next time folks can tap in?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 1 - So I'll try to answer both of those questions. So this is a program that we feel very, very strongly about, and we've assembled a full team to support this program, who care deeply about the program. So, as you said, last year, we had 67 grantees. Over half of them were minority-owned businesses. Over half of them were to gateway cities. Most of them were in Boston, because the team did spend a lot of time focusing on exactly where the eligible communities are, and a lot of them were in Boston. So we feel very strongly and support this program wholeheartedly. So the $7,500,000 is the same as that will be proposed last year.
We thought that was a responsible number. I'll quote the attorney general again. We would be happy with more funding for this program because the demand is very, very high. I think we had over 140 applications or something crazy like that last year. That being said, in the Mass Leads Act, and I know you're both look you're looking at both of these bills, alongside one another.
We did include some tweaks, to the Workforce Investment Trust Fund because we think the same population that that fund is trying to reach, we're hoping will be the same population that the program is trying to reach. So we're hoping to be able to tap into those funds too, to increase the funding for this program because as I said, it's a program that that we feel very strongly about.
And then in terms of the three years, so we're working with our team. We wanted to give organizations the flexibility. As you said, you've run a nonprofit. You know, it's one year is really hard. To be unpredictable from year to year, that's a challenge. So we wanted to give folks more flexibility. We are going to reassess after the year and see how that all works out. But, no, this does not mean that there's going to be no program next year. We just wanted to give, the grantees more flexibility. But we can follow up with specific questions, on that too. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
SPEAKER1 - Did I miss anything? No? Okay. Alright. Okay. Thank you. Further questions?
No. Thank you, madam secretary and undersecretaries for coming today and for testifying. Did you wanna say something?
SPEAKER8 - No. We're so grateful for all of the partnership. We're so grateful for, this incredible, group and for Gloucester. And I just wanna recognize we have an incredible team of commissioners, an incredible team here, and excited to follow-up if there are additional questions. But thank you so much for all your support and partnership.
SPEAKER1 - Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay. So, it is lunchtime. There is lunch downstairs. I don't know if people wanna go on their own, but let's take a 15 minute recess for anybody that has to, use the ladies or men's room,3813 wants to stretch out, or3815 get lunch.
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