2021-06-15 00:00:00 - Joint Committee on Cannabis Policy
2021-06-15 00:00:00 - Joint Committee on Cannabis Policy
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Yeah, I'm going to order.
This is a public hearing of the Joint Committee on the Committee of the Committee on cannabis policy. We're now officially convened. I'm Sonia Shah India's the senate co chair of the committee. Um We're also joined by my House um co chair uh and I will pause here and I'm just going to scan um in the list to look for senate members. I see that we're also joined by senator Moran uh from the committee. And bear with me because it takes a minute for me to scan through our participant list.
Oh,
all right. I think that we that's it for a Senate members that are present right now. If you are a senate member of the committee and I am not seeing you, please give a shout out. But I will kick it over to Chairman Donahue if you want to introduce the House members that are present. Thank you senator.74 Good morning. Good to see everybody just scanning through the list. I see we have Representative Alvin Alan Sylvia from Fall River, my vice Chair on the House side, Representative paul Schmidt from Westport represented Lindsay Sabado PSA from North Hampton. Representative Peter Kapono from Lynn and I believe that's all I'm seeing right now. Um just let you know madam chair, we are the houses gaveling into session um right now at 11. So I think we'll be seeing members come and go as we kind of take up the bill this morning. So I just want to everyone heads up on that. I want to thank the members for for doing both at the same time. Thanks for being here indeed. Thank you all the house members for doing that double today and we will try to be sensitive um to that, especially if you've got real calls going on. Um Yeah, so a few things uh that we want to just ask for your patience on before we get into the meat of the hearing. Um We do want to ask your patience for any technical issues that may pop up um since we are141 still um perfecting our flow with144 the virtual hearing format, A few things to no one please mute yourself on your audio. If you haven't already, when you are called to testify, then Ulan mute yourself. Um and we ask that you also open up your video if you're comfortable for doing with doing so um to make it a more more like the real thing hearing experience. Um if you're able to please make sure that166 your name appears in your video box so that staff can be sure you're in attendance before we call you up for testimony. We also ask that you please pay close attention to the chat function in Microsoft teams. Um here you will see staff from the committee, they'll be giving periodic updates regarding the speaking order so that folks will know when they're coming up, bear in mind that you are able to pin the chat to the side of your screen by clicking on um the little, the little box dialog bubble, okay? In order so that everyone may be heard, we asked you please limit your testimony to three minutes. We have a lot of people who are signed up to speak today, which is wonderful. But it also means we need to208 be efficient in order to ensure that all have a chance to offer their thoughts. Staff are going to maintain a clock and indicate on a shared screen when there is one minute left and when the testifier has used their full three minutes, we want to ask you right now to take a look at the screen of Nathaniel Shea if you can just find Nathaniel shape on your screen, take a look at him so that you will see um how it will look. There you go. You see it's got at the time is up uh notice right now. Um a gentle alarm will also go off once the time has expired. Please know that we accept and read with interest um you've written written testimony. So we encourage you to email your full testimony to the email addresses of myself and Chairman Donahue. Um If you either don't wish to testify early today or if you do but you are not able to get in your full testimony if it goes longer than three minutes. Um you can also find our emails at www dot M a Legislature dot gov. We are going to be calling people267 in the order in which they signed up. We will also take legislators out of turn as the practice of the committee that will make efforts to alternate with members of the public as well. Members of the committee special notice for you. Please use the hand raising function to indicate if you have a question um As this will make the progress of the of the uh hearing much more smooth um Once a testifier is done speaking bear with me though, sometimes it does take me a minute294 to scroll through the list and just check if anyone has a little digital hand up if you're not able to find the hand button, you know or you have it up but I'm not301 seeing you. I'm also encourage you to just um if you can you can306 just say Madam Chair allowed and to catch my attention. Alright at today's hearing, the Joint committee on cannabis policy is going to hear testimony on bills related to social equity and criminal justice issues. The first person that we have scheduled to testify is Northeast camargo. Uh and on deck after her will be shaken. Edo Commissioner camargo, are you ready?
I'm ready. Um Just before you dive in, I'll ask um if uh if you have, if you're here in attendance pushing to testify, but you know, you have not signed up with the committee staff, please also let them know in the chat so we can get you into the speaking order with that Commissioner camargo. Take it away.
Thank you. Good morning. Chairs join H India's Donahue and members of the committee and thank you for the chance to testify before you regarding the opportunity for the commonwealth to be true to its mandate and assist individuals who have been disproportionate harm by the warm drugs and who wish to be part of this licensed cannabis market.365 My name is Norris camargo and I have the privilege of serving as a newly appointed commissioner on the cannabis control commission as a social justice. See I'm here independently, but I know that our agency at the C. C. C. Has a wide, has wide efforts right now around equity around the equity man. I know my fellow commissioners and staff care and do everything possible towards that mandate every day. I want to give a quick shout out to staff. They worked really hard on this stuff every day.
Um, in my short time here at the commission, I've394 seen and heard from many aspiring entrepreneurs who face barriers to enter the industry. And may I remind folks and everyone here that this industry was legalized, in part because the commonwealth realized the historical injustices that resulted from over policing of are predominantly bipod communities, massachusetts, the first state in the nation to have a mission of equity and inclusion mandate by state law and the first to create and administer to programs. We're all familiar with our economic Empowerment program and our social equity program. Uh, first one of the first programs in the nation. And we've now, yeah, There's an Echo, but we've now provided 500 license applicants so far with technical assistance training and license benefits. I will say that the data tells a different story or tells a story and it's one that I'm not sure to share with you today.
Only 10 equity program. Participant licenses have opened for business, 19 certified women. Minority veteran owned businesses have commenced operation. While these numbers improve every month, they're not where they need to be. Too many individuals still face extensive barriers are taking part in the industry and deserve access to it. As we know, many aspiring applicants have indicated a major barrier to entering this license industry is access to capital. The startup capital is crucial to gathering the necessary property, the build out and the administrative work necessary to obtain state and local approvals. The commission, strict security and environmental regulations, safeguard public health and safety. While always front and center. We know these systems are just are not cheap. And due to federal prohibition these applications, these applicants often do not have the ability to get from their bank, something that almost every other business in the commonwealth is able to do.
For these reasons, Equity applicants need access to a state administered fund that can offer512 capital too, get businesses off the ground. State government has historically offered business development assistance to small and medium sized businesses to foster521 economic growth. The cannabis industry should not be any different in Massachusetts, more than 10,000 jobs exist in today's adult use market and more establishments are commencing operations every month as we move into the next phase of this industry, it is right to stop and assess our responsibility to communities that have suffered disproportionate harm from the failed war on drugs and seek ways to address those wrongs.
I believe again, a statewide administered fund to assist these small businesses is a crucial tool needed aside from programs for aspiring business owners, we also a remedy for the thousands of individuals who have suffered great harm due to the criminalization of marijuana. Automatic expungement is being adopted throughout the country. In some states, massachusetts has always led and now is the perfect time to lead and adopted as well. Thank you for the opportunity of testifying this morning and for listening. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me. And583 I really look forward to working collaboratively with you all to solve the challenges of bringing true equity to this new industry in America to use it. So thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you very much. Commissioner. Um, any questions from members of the committee for commissioner, camargo?
Give me a sec while I scroll here. Commissioner. Sure. Mhm. All right. I don't see any hands.
So with that I'm gonna let you go. But thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for your work.
All right. Um next up, we have shaken Kiddo
mister Adel, who are you with us?
Just give him a minute.
Yeah,
Yeah. All right. I'm we will circle back to Mr ando. I see that we have also been joined um by both our esteemed vice chair of the committee on the Senate side, and uh one of the lead sponsors of uh one of today's uh pieces of legislation, Senator Collins, um Senator Collins, did you want to testify on your bill? Mhm.
Thank you, madam. Chair. I just wanted to submit testimony to the committee, um and I appreciate the opportunity. And the commissioner before me on S two, I'm sorry, uh 63 just to echo the commissioner, you know, I believe that access to capitalism is the most important issue we can deal with right now, um in this industry, given, um, you know, our goals and mandate to bring equity and inclusion into this section of our economy. Now, we've seen so many of um, you know, entrepreneurs that have, have been over leveraged by maybe their investors or, you know, the investment community, um, where their credibility is required,716 quite frankly, particularly districts like mine to open up a small business and some members of this nature.
So I think that this bill, um, reflects those values that we set forth and, uh, legislation on around equity, um, sort of, you know, an unfunded mandate. This allows us to have a steady stream and bring that access to capital that736 we saw, quite frankly during the P. P. P. Arguments and debates that we had and shifted gears, um, as the Legislature, as a state, to make sure we opened up, um, resources, not, um, necessarily, to this industry in the same way as we did restaurants, but, um, that we got around the barriers, which is what we're talking about here and particularly this industry, and so on. This. This will provide access to capital, uh, that's badly needed, and I'll submit this in writing to the rest of the committee and see the floor. I don't want to take up too much time, but thank you again for the opportunity uh to speak on this this morning and great to be with you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you Senator. I'm just gonna go ahead and um I see that Representative Rogers, r former House chair and also one of the chief sponsors of today's legislation has also joined us. I'm gonna go ahead and ask rep Rogers if you want to testify and then we'll check788 in with members of the committee if they've got questions for either you or Senator Collins. Okay. Great.
Well thank you Senator Jack Diaz and uh Chair Diaz Diaz and chair Don you thanks for taking me out of order. It's so good to be with you again and the important work that this committee does and I'm here to testify on H 177 which would establish the massachusetts, cannabis social Equity trust fund. And as you've heard from Senator Collins, as you've heard from the commissioner, um, you know, we uh, want to help historically, uh disadvantaged communities, aspiring entrepreneurs who have not participated fully in this837 new industry. And so we we wouldn't be outliers to do this Illinois has taken action to other states, are, are taking action, um, the way this bill works. And there are few bills that are designed to do this in front of you, as you know, but this would take a portion of host community agreement funds and dedicated to the fund, uh Social Equity Trust fund as well as could accept private funds. Uh, I know that there are866 some of the larger players in our market who voiced a potential willingness to lend a hand, but there's been874 no avenue or vehicle for them to contribute private money to help fund this.
So it would allow private and other public sources, who knows, perhaps at some point it would be become part of a line item in the budget at any rate. Um, I know just from talking entrepreneurs when I was the chair last session soup to nuts to really open a retail cannabis dispensary. And it can vary of course, depending on what market, what part of the state, But it's about a million dollars and it might be a little less. It might be 600,000, it might be 1.2, but it's probably about a million bucks to open one of these retail stores. And so communities of color. Um, women, others who have not historically had as much access to capital, um, uh, really need help and that's been a barrier to entry so um I don't want to go on at great length. I know you have a number of witnesses to testify, but I hope you'll give due consideration to this uh and give it a favorable report and thank you so much for the opportunity. It's good to be back with you today and I hope you have a great hearing. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
It's good to have you back. Um Any questions from members of the committee for either rip Rogers or senator Collins.
Mhm. Alright seeing none. Thank you again, both of you gentlemen for your testimony. Um and we will uh proceed to our next person who signed up to testify, which is Peter Bernard. Mhm,
wow, where's my video? Mhm. Come on, don't you? Yeah.
Yes, I let me drop my light.
Good morning, good members of the committee and uh thank you for affording us this time this morning. As you know, I'm really kind of a broad strokes guy And I really like H1771001 and S63 both of those things feed into a fund that would help social1008 equity and give them the kind of leg up they need. Otherwise we can go in this tent behind us and watch the greatest dog and pony show ever made because without some kind of financial help, these guys are the victims of predatory loaning. Sure, the commission has come up with really great ways to make sure there isn't managerial control without ownership. There are still ways to write loans that can really hobble the way somebody makes, goes about doing their business and essentially makes them an employee of the investor and that kind of defeats the purpose.
We've given social equity, all these excellent opportunities, Like they get to be first at bat for delivery. That's huge, brick and mortar retail hates that because who walks into papa gino's when you can call domino's and have it brought to your door and cannabis is going to be the same way. And then a lot of those delivery drivers of social equity and1065 they've got a small window right now. Some of them just need them a little bit of money. Some of them just need some technical guidance. Some of them need a little bit of both. But if we're going to do true social justice, we have to give them more than a status because that status is great. I can pin that little badge on my shirt that says I'm social equity. But what does that really help me with? If I don't have the means and I don't have the technical support to get there? It doesn't mean a lot. Uh, I also want to talk a little bit about Jason Lewis is Bill S. 73 on expungement for possession.
Somebody very close to me in the 90s got caught with 6g of marijuana and spent three years peeing in a bottle once a week because he, it was either that or guilty finding, We can't give him back that three years, but we can take that little incident off of his record. I mean, I've got more than that sitting next to me on my coffee table and it's not a problem now and it never should have been a crime in the first place. And that's another piece of social justice. That's really kind of important. But the social equity piece, as far as those funds go, when I look around out here and talk to people that have that status and trying to get into it. Their number one problem is financing. Um They know what, they don't know. You can hire business people1159 to help them with things like compliance and navigating to basic business stuff that they might not be savvy and but they can't whip money out of thin air and print money like the federal government does. And with that, thank you for your time. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you. Mr Bernard.
Any questions from members of the committee for? Mr Bernard?
Yeah.
Alright, seeing none. I'm gonna proceed. Um I see that Mr Doe1198 has joined us. Uh Mr due to, Are you ready to testify?
Yes, madam. Chairwoman. I appreciate the opportunity and I apologize for the tardiness to the meeting today, but thank you very much for this chance to to share some thoughts on what we call in the house. Just thank you. Representative
Mr Doe. Just just for uh for your context, there's a formal session going on in the house right now. So we're gonna have periodic into little interruptions like that. Um but you should go ahead and proceed with your testimony and uh we've got staff throughout the hearing that are going to be taking notes, so if any of the house members have to pop out for a vote and get caught up with those efforts. No problem. We appreciate your service, uh everybody.
Um well, I'll just I'll share my formal remarks. Um so my name is she gonna do and I have the privilege of serving as the president and1255 Ceo of BECMA or the Black Economic Council of massachusetts. Our organization was founded in 2015 and is now a statewide organization That advances the economic well being of black businesses organizations and people through advocacy, business and leadership development and strategic partnerships. And today we represent the over 2000 black firms that employ 17,000 Massachusetts residents and generate a combined $1.9 billion dollars in annual profits, all of which is poured back into our economy on behalf of1287 our board and our members across not only1289 the city of boston, but the entire commonwealth. I wanted to express my appreciation to you, madam, chairwoman and mr, chairman and the esteemed members of this joint committee on cannabis policy for the opportunity to offer testimony on the proposed legislation that's before you this morning.
I want to begin by acknowledging groups like equitable opportunities now Ari on the mass recreational Consumer Council, the minority cannabis Business association and many others who tirelessly advocated both for the establishment of this new1319 industry and1320 for the presence of equity. From its outset, the voters of massachusetts overwhelmingly stated their position on the matter of recreational cannabis that we must not only make this substance available, but that in doing so, we must also atone for the decades of harm brought against black and latin X communities by eliminating barriers to business and workforce inclusion and making equity a practice rather than a slogan. The emergence of this new industry provided an important opportunity for our state to ensure that the commonwealth would be true for all the eye toward equity.
Signaled to us at Beckman that massachusetts was beginning to understand that the development of some communities cannot coexist with the underdevelopment of other communities. And this understanding is critically important now, more than ever before, as I sure shared with the joint Committee on Racial Equity, Civil Rights and inclusion. Yesterday, 2020 saw black community in massachusetts that was on the rise, get hit with increased public health, economic and social challenges related to Covid 19 and a racial reckoning over the summer. These events compounded by existing health disparities in our communities and ever yawning racial wealth gap proved to be devastating to the growth of our communities.
To provide a little bit more context to that close to 15% of black businesses who responded to a survey that we put out last July almost a year ago said that they had closed their doors for good With the harsh winter and the uncertain spring. We know that those numbers are closer to 20% today. And this is uh, even this is even more terrible when you think of the fact that our workforce,1420 uh, throughout Covid faced a depression where our unemployment rates were doubled when compared to their white counterparts. The economy of our communities, though resilient uh is facing a crisis. I can say that our economy is resilient because studies show that black businesses keep our economy going Brookings Institution Report founded, found that after the Great Recession, while white businesses lost 2.4 million jobs, minority businesses helped to add 1.8 million jobs to the national economy.
This, however, was made possible because of the industries are businesses inhabit, namely restaurants, retail, hair care and personal care. It is precisely these industries that are now in jeopardy of failure. As Covid continues to impact their long term growth, it is incumbent upon us, therefore, to remove every barrier to our growing new businesses and new, more lucrative industries like cannabis to employ our people and contribute to an ever dwindling tax base. One way to do that is present in the bills before you today. Each discusses the need for investment in black and latin X entrepreneurs who seek to grow businesses that will not only provide for their uh, for their workers families, but ultimately invest in their communities and reduce this racial wealth gap. I'm here not to support any
, yep. Uh, Senator Army, Sorry, I'm trying to cut in its more effective taking myself off you. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but we do. I have to call time on you. We have a lot signed up today, and I just want to make everyone's going to get a chance. But please do send the remainder of your remarks for the entirety of your remarks to us. Thank you so much. Any questions from members of the committee for Mr. Edo. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Okay, Seeing them. Thank you again. Um, and next up to testify is Michelle Herman.
This harmony with us. You can go ahead and a mute
and
all right. I don't not seeing her pop up. All right, so we're gonna keep moving um to flavia Hungar. Oh,
it's Yes,
sure.
All right. Not saying it was hung gar. Oh, so we're going to keep going to blake mincing.
Yeah, thank you, madam. Chair mr Chair. Hello, I'm blake mincing. I'm a cannabis attorney and entrepreneur. I'm speaking Today in favor of S73 for the reasons stated. Um you know, you need to have a mechanism to get a clean slate for an industry that's now completely legal. Um like some other states, um we would be the first, Uh and I would hope that there would be some mechanism by which you wouldn't have to create an errand for people to get expungement.1618 That would probably involve more than 73 proposals, but I do greatly support the automatic eligibility for expungement, as well as the1627 expansion of the pool of eligible people.1629 The current expungement statute seems to only allow really narrow swath of people to be eligible for that. Um, and a clean slate, I think would mean a great deal to a lot of people in this industry. I'm also speaking in support of S63, I think it has the most dollars to solve the greatest problem.
As was outlined. You know, you need dollars to open and a state mandate to have restored of social justice and empower people who are harmed by the failed drug war means nothing if there aren't dollars because unfortunately, as I mentioned in the HD a context of the last hearing, municipalities aren't obligated to care about the state mandate and therefore They often don't. I'm also in support of H158, again, the most dollars for folks in the social equity and economic empowerment program. I1677 think that the grants should be the standard rather than alone even a low interest loan. Um this is a bill that the state owes these people who are disproportionately enforced against Um you know, for reasons that are immoral1692 and based on racial animus. So I think the dollars will do the most good in supporting that statutory goal.
Um and while I think the intention behind H177 is great, I think it's missing a couple of points based on the HDA context. This is this is rep Rogers bill. You can't pull off money from a host community community impact fee and give it to the state. In my opinion, under the statute is drafted because it's four impacts that are reasonably related to that community. So I don't understand at all the desire to take from the community when that hcea community impact fee is meant to be a net zero, no one should make a dollar off a community impact period. Um there was also one point that appeared in a couple of the bills that I think would be crucial to address, uh and that would be that you'd get positive impact plan, credit for donations to one of these to be created social equity funds.
Um, What we have right now is the commission posts guidance on its website and has its regulations in the statute. Obviously they have a model positive impact plan that the commission still does not approve, even if you just replace the names. And the reason behind that is the newer commissioners have their own rules and thoughts and that's completely within their purview. And I understand that it's just not in writing anywhere, so it's impossible to anticipate what someone's thinking if the agency doesn't put it in writing. So, you know, positive impact plans are crucial. I think there should be a mechanism to have some predictability about what the commission would accept as a positive impact plan.
I've literally had the same positive impact plan B attached to one license and get approved and another one where the commission says no we don't like it for whatever reason. So we need uniformity and predictability uh and1795 not just for the selfish reasons that I'd like to know what I'm talking about when I'm telling my clients what to do. And if I follow a model positive impact plan, I hope that would be approved because it's listed as the model. Thank you all for your time. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Mr Mincing um Concise and specific, Really helpful. Um Any questions from Mr Manson? From the committee? Right mm. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Um Alright seeing none. Uh We are going to uh move to Grant Ellis next
Hello madam chair. I noticed Slavia is here now if she wanted to go she was before me. Mr Ellis. That is that's very gentlemanly. Thank you for that and I will take you up on that. Uh missing or if you're ready
flavia Angara are you ready? Hello. Yes I am. So for having me here um I do support H. 1 77 and S. 63. Um So I think supporting um social equity and minorities with this fund will be very important to move this program forward in the industry.
Thank you. Okay thank you so1886 much.
Mr Ellis. You're up.
Thank you madam. Chair sorry for the delay there. I'm trying to record clips as people speak so thank you for the indulgence.
Um Good afternoon madam Chair Mr Chair and honourable members of the committee. My name is Grant smith Ellis, and I'm a1915 disabled and homebound medical cannabis patient. I live in Cambridge massachusetts with my family. I'm testifying today in support of a number of bills but with the caveat on the agenda that I think there needs to be some amendments to really make them do what they're intending to do. And I'm referring1934 of course to the social Equity loan fund bills. Almost every bill on the agenda today relates in some way to the social Equity loan funds safe for S. 73 which as Mr mincing explained, relates to expungement of prior convictions of cannabis. I support that bill for the reasons he laid out the process right now is broken for expungement, including some instances where courts are keeping paper records and making it very difficult for individuals to obtain that expungement.
So I think, yes, 73 would go a long way to fixing that broken process, but on the social equity loan fund piece. So I think a lot of the prior speakers emphasised why the social equity loan fund is so crucial in some form, but I do think the details of how the fund is overseeing how the fund is funded and what the fund looks like in terms of eligibility are crucial. The bill that I like most is H 1 58 slash S 63. Um, I think that that bills loan forgiveness is crucial. I think the no interest loan component of the bill is crucial and I think the funding mechanism is somewhat good, but also need some assistance. I'm referring specifically to the section of the bill that talks about the fund shall consist of revenues collected by the commonwealth, including up to 25% of revenue generated by the cannabis excise tax, provided that said revenue shall be deposited in the fund on a 1 to 1 basis relative to private funds received pursuant donations.
The reason I don't like that is it doesn't set a minimum threshold. I think there should be a minimum of 10% of the excise tax that goes to the Social Equity fund and then for percentages 11 through 25 if you want to make that conditional on pre existing gifts or donations, I I think that's more reasonable. But this could lead to a situation where no one donates any money to the fund and then there's no tax revenue from the excise tax that goes in. I think if we look at how the excise tax was structured under the original law that the compromise committee passed in the summer of 2017, the cannabis excise tax revenue is supposed to be spent on five subcategories. And the boston globe did an analysis last year that of the $70.6 million in tax revenue that came in, zero of those dollars were spent on communities that were disproportionately harmed by the war on drugs.
So I think there's already an existing mandate to use the excise tax in some way to benefit communities that were disproportionately impacted. So why not use S 1 50 S 63 H 1 58 to do that. So I'm strongly in support of, of creating a loan fund. I'm strongly in support of using H 1 58 and 63 is the vehicle, but I think that there needs to be an amendment to the that specific funding component to ensure that the excise tax is actually going to this fund. Um likewise, um I do not support um H176, there's no funding in the bill for it. Um I don't see the purpose of a technical assistance fund that doesn't have any funding attached to it. Um it confused me. Um I agree with mr mincing on H 1 77. I I agree with the2118 Bill and Spirit, I think it does a lot of what H 1 58 is trying to do, but I don't think the H. C. A fee should be used to fund the Social Equity loan fund, I think the Excise tax can be used for that. Um And so that's really my perspective on all of this. I think that a social equity loan fund absolutely has to come together. I think the bills you have before you create a nice piece meal approach that could be used to build that social equity loan fund and I hope you will do just that. Thank you for the time. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you. Mr Alice any questions from the committee for Mr Ellis?
Alright, seeing here and then um we're going to proceed to linda2157 Noel,
thank you for the opportunity to speak today, Senator chang and all honored members of the committee. I'd like to rise and support today of H158 slash S63. I think these are the best of the front li Social Equity fund bills before you. However, I agree with those that there are changes that need to be leave also the act relative to expungement. We really need this to be enacted quickly. Um It is long overdue, almost five years out from legalization and is ridiculous that people are still being penalized for something that never should have happened in the first weeks. Um H. 1 58 and that's 63 are pretty good options. Um as a social equity applicant, I can tell you that everyone I've heard so far as right on the money and that funding is the biggest obstacle are entering the business. Just security along.
Never mind the having to hold a location for the 18 to 20 month process about navigating the license when she got in your H. C. A. It really does put a party on. It means the most small mom and pop enterprises, especially those who are declining to Social Equity or Economic film an applicant um Getting business. And this is pretty much impossible because of the federal laws. So I think funding alone program is the best thing you can do to make the process. The process easy and transparent and actually equity. I have some problems with H. 177 because of its funding. My first problem is taking money from H. C. A. S.
Um Never mind that we all just testify that2288 Hcea should be zero sum and based on actual costs and the actual cost should be documented and reviewed annually. But these H. C. A. Holders are in good part social2302 Equity applicants. So assessing them to fund the fund for them doesn't seem in any way to be any kind of reparation and I believe that is the purpose of social equity is to repair the harms done like prohibition. Um And also that H. 1 77 doesn't say anything about the existing Hchs and how they're going to pay into the fund either. H. 1 66 doesn't have any funding whatsoever.
So it's really problematic. I do like the part of that that allows the marijuana establishes impact plan to find the program as part of2344 their support. Um I think that ought to be added to H. 158 I don't think it should be their entire impact plan, but I think they should be encouraged and I think that's a really good way to start funding these businesses. I think your time for listening today, I will be submitting all my testimony2362 by email as well. And I hope that you can take these three bills, these three house bills and find find a way to bring them together to create the ultimate though and do what social equity was meant to do. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Yeah. Thank you. Mr Well um I recall last time at our last tearing that are have hearing somebody referred to in the chat as the O. G. Of cannabis and now you're always going to be that have that title in my mind. Uh so thank you2394 for being with us again. Any questions from members of the committee uh for linda O. G. Noel
seeing them. Thank you again. It's not uh Kathy influences. Next up to testify.
Hi, everybody can machine.
Good morning, good night madame chita. Um yes, linda is the O. G. I will get to okay? Please listen to everybody who comes before you today who has opened before you and really hear what we're asking. We're only asking writes that really belong to those who deserve it. There are communities upon communities and this has been one of the hardest ones. You let everything else come by and you know, nod and a wink and this and that you put your campus community, Which is medical and recreation in the same buildings and you ruined it. A lot of elders my age 74 to say,
Hey, you know, apart ain't so great in those dispensaries and I have to agree, I'm glad I grow my own and I smoke my own because I don't want to be paying X amount of dollars for something that I'm not going to enjoy. Second of all, everybody deserves the right to be into this community no matter what color we are we, we walk or talk or anything else. But deep pockets are not allowed. That's my rule. I'm really tired of people coming in from other states, dropping money here there in our people can't sell their products. So I say, please listen. There's a bunch more and that's where my time is going to have a great day and get out in the sun as Elmo says, please have a great day. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you for that encouragement. Any questions for MS Owens from members of the committee and I'm going to just ask members of the committee to go ahead and just um, note that you have a question out loud. I know I said at the beginning to raise your digital hand, but it's becoming pretty clunky to scroll through and look at that. So I think it'll be faster if you can just let me know how loud, um, if you do have a question, I think there's a few of us and it's manageable, but here and then, um, then we will proceed to devon alexander for the next testimony. Yeah, my Akram, Cee lo and I'm still not sure something
more than everybody.
My name is Devon alexander and I'm the Ceo of Roland relief perspective marijuana delivery operator based in the south shore. I'm the vice president of the massachusetts Canada's association called delivery and I'm also a graduate of the first cohort of the massachusetts candles, social equity program. Access to capital2576 as you well know, is one of the top barriers to entry and you don't make it easy on us as you've heard so many times before. You cannot get traditional bank loans. And It's a problem across the country, not just here in Massachusetts, but we are lacking here in Massachusetts. When I see other states make progress ahead of us. I can't help2596 but be jealous in Oakland California.
They give the equity applicants $100,000, no interest loans. In the state of colorado. Governor Jared Polis, just signed in $4 million dollars for the equity applicants. And even in the state of Vermont, which doesn't even have their regulatory body set up. Their governor has set aside money for equity applicants. We have2617 legalized cannabis back in 2016. It is five years later, we have grossed over a billion dollars in Cannabis revenue. It is no excuse why. We do not have access to capital for equity applicants. I have everything I need to succeed except in final missing piece financing. I have my location,2636 I have a host community agreement. I have all the2639 other things. I can get a provisional license, but it really take me to the top and really get to what I need. It's the capital that comes in.
I have meetings with investors constantly trying to see who's really out there, who has good morals, who is not going to be a predator and it's tiring. It takes a lot out of you. But that's business. You know, this is just the name of the game, But it doesn't have to be that way. These access to these loans, these grants going to go a long way2666 not make us really depend on these predatory loans that used to often see and see people nah go out of their business before they even get a chance to set up. So it is my hope that you will really take in a deep consideration As 63 really established this social equity trust funds because it's really something that we still need. Thank you for your time. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you. Mr alexander. Any questions for mr alexander from members of the committee?
Okay, all right, see and then thank you again. Next up is Lorna McCafferty
good at it still morning.
Good morning Chairwoman, chang Diaz Chairman Donahue and honourable members of the committee. My name is Laura McCafferty and I am the clerk at the massachusetts cannabis Reform Coalition, Mass. Can speaking in my individual capacity, I am also a disabled medical cannabis patient. Thank you for taking the time today to listen to the testimony of the community related to these important bills surrounding the proposed social Equity loan fund, H 158, S 63 H 177 and H 1782737 along with the streamline process for the expungement of prior cannabis convictions. S 73 in particular, the four bills mentioned above to create that Social Equity loan fund all reflect very valid concerns for social equity companies in the commonwealth of massachusetts.
Currently, cannabis companies cannot obtain traditional bank loans and must thus rely on financing from either existing corporate cannabis operators who have an incentive not to create competition in the market or from private vulture capital firms who have an incentive to set up the equity applicant to fail, thus handing ownership and control of the cannabis license over to that investor or investment firm. Therefore, predators will try to capitalize on this fact and loan money under agreements to benefit the lender, but not the borrower. For instance. Friends have told me of these predatory lenders. Having contracts2792 with a borrower would get his six figure salary, but all profits go to the lender. Therefore, while the owner of the social Equity or Economic empowerment company makes a salary through the start up phase, they do not gain equity and cannot grow2806 his or her company for their own benefit. They stay in the mode of an employee, but not a business owner.
These predators target social equity companies in order to gain priority status that is only available to those companies. Therefore, a2819 loan fund that is not by a third party company, but is managed by a fair and equitable body of government would be key. Also, the loan forgiveness provisions of Bill H 1 58 slash S 63 is something I think is crucial. That said, however s. and its counterpart H158 need to be amended in my2838 opinion so that a baseline amount of tax revenue goes into the loan fund without the requisite private donation coming in first is wrong to set up the funds of the tax revenue was only added after a private donation. At least 10% of the cannabis excise tax revenue should go to the loan fund under H 1 58 S 63 then additional tax money above the 10% could be included with the private donation first. Thank you for your time and consideration and I wish you all the best. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you much, Miss McCafferty. Any questions Mrs McCafferty from the committee.
All right, Miss McCafferty. You're off the hook. Um Thank you again for your testimony. Next up is keith Saunders. Yeah.
Mr Saunders used to with us. We'll give you give me another minute here just to take yourself off you if you are.
I don't see him in the list. All right. We'll keep going to jennifer deadly.
Mhm.
All right. Not hearing. Um MS Dudley going to keep it moving to Jonathan, is it mattress?
Yeah, you got it. Okay. Okay, thank you.
Um Good afternoon Chairwoman chang Diaz Chairman Donahue and honourable members of the committee. My name is Jonathan batteries and2943 I am the chairman of the massachusetts, cannabis reform coalition Mass cam. I'm also in the second cohort of the Social equity program. Uh and I am here uh testifying a behalf on my own capacity. Uh first I'd like to start in support about 73 expungement, no doubt. I think that actually like in a in a spiritual way, um this is why it's so hard, we can't get ahead. Um you know, how dare we make money while there's still people sitting in jail for it, so um support it fully fully. Uh and then uh Nicole to my notes here. So um also I want to say something about um h 1 66. you know, it really seems like lip service, right? There's no actual funding um for this for this thing, so um you know, it just seems like lip service, especially coming from someone that uh you know, proposed a bill to keep incarcerating us and arresting us. So um there's that, and um let's see here.
Um 1 77. Also no funding. 1 66, um the ira going over that. Um And yeah and then you know, just just really uh imperative that uh we give these these equity participants uh more sources of funding because uh you know because we don't have traditional funding, we are at the mercy of predatory lenders and allowing new ways of funding um will increase the competition in the lending arena. So right now we're kind of you know, bait for these folks. So um you know, a new way of funding that's regulated uh like how it was proposed, I think3052 it was a 1 58 uh is crucial so I apologize for being a little bit but everywhere but I will submit a written testimony and hopefully uh this made a difference. Thank you. Thank you very much.
SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Questions from the committee for mR batteries.
Alright, seeing none. I'm just gonna do a quick check. Uh, if mr Saunders or Miss Dudley have come back on
either of you guys are here. You can go ahead and take yourself afternoon. Let us know you're here.
All right, then. I'm gonna keep going um, to our next line up. The first person in the next batch is Michael or Tall
not seeing or hearing Mr or tall. I see that3120 Miss Van James is with us. Um You wanna go ahead? Miss Van James?
Hello, Good sunrise, you guys. Um Thank you for taking the time. I just want to say thank you to you guys for taking the time to discuss funds for social equity. Um, and as well as the automatic expungement for cannabis charges today. Um, and I just want to share with you some quick facts to help frame a full picture and to ensure we're all on the same understanding of where cannabis, where massachusetts stands today with the cannabis industry. So in 2008 we decriminalized cannabis. And in 2016 we legalize cannabis. And to this day, as we know, there's zero social equity funds have been set aside to fund social equity applicants. In essence, what what this has done is it has prioritized people who, who are in a place of privilege, Right? So as a result, we have the majority of our, all of our, I'm pretty sorry, all of our medical dispensaries.3178 When they first opened up, they were all white owned and came wealthy and majority are non massachusetts resident3185 based, essentially, these are not local businesses.
These are corporations. Um, there was so much reefer madness and racial propaganda that is stemmed in the legal, in the cannabis industry, that there's a huge distrust towards trusting your own local constituents. And so as we founded this industry, we put the trust in corporations instead of our our local residents, black, white, brown, and that really, really know the plant and no, the consumers. Um, and as a result, we, the people who have been directly impacted disproportionately impacted are still being being ignored and left behind. In 2020 the can the cannabis control commission share that over $1 billion in cannabis tax revenue has been in cannabis sales has been made. Zero cannabis tax revenue3239 has been used to fund social equity applicants. Zero cannabis tax revenue has been put aside towards restorative justice. Zero cannabis tax revenue has even been set aside has failed to been set aside for substance abuse and mental health programs and black and brown communities since we've decriminalized and legalized cannabis across the state of massachusetts.
In essence, we are failing and failing deeply to address the systemic harms inflicted upon our communities that are still being disproportionately impacted by the war on drugs. I also want to share with you that the wealth gap between black residents versus white residents is $8 to 247 K. I repeat $8 to $247,000. So when a black person says I am poor, the definition of poor is radically different than when a white person says I am poor. This is this is due to the wealth gap that we have, and we know that this is due to systemic racism. Since legalization and decriminalization, the racial disparity with cannabis arrest has only increased from four times to 114 times higher across the state of Massachusetts. I've shared in my previous testimony for the host community agreements, bills on how this has impacted black and brown, potential social equity applicants and potential cannabis business owners in this industry as they go to obtain host community agreements and the distrust disdain and ingrained racism that they are faced with as they attempt to try to3331 open up a business in this state as a resident of Massachusetts.
So what does our cannabis industry look like? Well, it looks like is majority white owned and the workforce is majority white labor force as well, a majority white3345 labor force as well. So we've legalized, we've decriminalized, and it's still not been enough to prioritize, um, you3355 know, the impact for our black and brown communities are, are screaming for investment in services and um, replacement and replacement of investment for policing for3365 their communities. Um, we are also witnessing protests, um, for black lives matter that we need to defund the police and invest in communities. And I want to make sure to be clear with you that make no mistake. Today's cry for social equity funds lays in part to that same cry to invest. The racist propaganda that fuels this war on drugs has to stop immediately and it has to stop Through systemic change the bills. There's two bills, bills? S- 63 and that's been sponsored by Senator Nick Collins and also going to wrap up because we got to be fair to folks about time. But you know, we're always here to receive your written testimony and we will absolutely take a look at it.
Okay. I just want to share3410 that builds S 63 bill 150 A are wonderfully written. They include grants, loan forgiveness, and they're the only ones that have a minimum of 25% set aside in cannabis tax revenue to go towards this fund, It takes over $1 million to open up a dispensary, about $5 million for a cultivation business. And the only caveat that we have in here that we simply recommend this is simply comment on a 1 to 1 basis relative to private funds received pursuant to3436 as other people have shared. Um, the revenue should be put in here regardless of whether they're matched on a private basis. This war on drugs was um, federally sanctioned state back. Municipally enforced is upon you, our local government to to set the tone and to tell the private industry to follow charge so they are not required to match you, but they are required to follow you. So regardless of whether or not they put funds in here, you still have to move forward and you still have to restore our communities, transform our communities that are still being disproportionately impacted by the war on drugs today.
And lastly, I do want to share that. I do support the automatic expungement for cannabis revenue. However, this bill, we want to ensure that there's no loopholes for people who are on probation as cannabis, as cannabis arrests are racially motivated and we're seeing the racial um impact increasing since decriminalization and legalization. It is imperative that we make sure that there is no loophole for people who are on probation that they would get charges and be put back into prison. As we know, this plant is medicinal. There should be no caveats and no issues for people who are on probation, smoking or using cannabis. Um as we know, prison is not as punitive, it3503 is um meant to harm, it is meant to um you know, um um is a punitive form of justice. It is not a restorative form of justice. So people who come out of jail still need to be um re entry is a process. They still need assistance and and a lot of trauma work has to be done because prison is a trauma induced place and that and that is by design. That is my intention. So I apologize for being over my time but thank you so much for listening to me today. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you. Ben James. Any questions from members of the committee? You packed a lot in there. Uh Thank you so much. And now let's say I gotta put my list back up.
Yeah,
they're with me here.
All right. Um next up to testify is april Andrade and please tell me if I'm saying your name wrong. How do you know? Oh april andrey thank you.
Um, and thank you to the chair of the committee for taking the time to listen to the community today in regard to these bills. Um, first I wanted to address Bill H176. Um, well technical, a technical equity fund is great. Um, anybody who works with bills knows that to bring forth a bill that provides funding with no revenue sources basically irresponsible and a waste of the communities time because without resources for funding for that there, it will never happen. Um, in regards to bill H178, All companies in the cannabis industry should be contributing a minimum of 1% to an economic empowerment fund That should not count towards their impact plan. Um, they've made it to the table now it's time to tip the people who helped get them to that table and by putting a minimum 1% that's not gonna, you know, crush their pockets. That's you know and that continues to provide the equity and the things that individuals need to get in.
Um loans. Many prioritized applicants do not have the credit or the loan history to be able to go to a bank and3648 get a loan for anything especially at something in relationship to the cannabis industry. So conventional standard loans aren't going to work for a large portion of the disproportionately impacted community. So these loans need to be set up with um loan forgiveness. They need to be set up with non interest bearing. We need more grants accessible. Um age 1 77 like I stayed at that um the 1st 1% needs to come directly from cannabis businesses. It3676 should not come from the H. C. A. Process. A lot of these towns are already suffering and financially destitute and they're just3685 trying to make sure that they don't have a negative impact on their community from and bringing in cannabis industries.
So to take that 1% from them is going to cause a lot more issues with us economic empowerment and prioritized applicants in regards to trying to get an H. C. A. Were already struggling to get H. C. A. So when we start telling them that now the money they're getting that it's supposed to be a 00 it's supposed to be to offset those impacts. Now they're going to have to take that money and pay it back to the state is just going to cause all continued like said continued issues with um prioritized applicants getting Hcs. Um I do have concerns about who's going to determine where that money comes from. How is it going to be distributed? Who gets that money? Bill H. 158 and 63, I feel like there's some good points to3737 them. They're the lesser of two evils. Like I said, the no interest loans, loan forgiveness, the grants, especially for E. N. S. E. Participants, is great, but that funding needs to3746 be coming from the Excise Tax fund um with a minimum of 10% coming out of the canvas excise tax fund, the remaining 15% in your, you guys specify 25%. That remaining 15% can come from 121 granting system from the community or from the 1% that comes from all cannabis Businessly into that loan.
But there needs to be a guaranteed 10% of that cannabis excise tax that goes back into a fund to provide loans, forgivable loans, non interest bearing loans and grants to prioritize applicants. Um, and I would also like to remind you guys that while you're working your wording3788 on all of these different grants to please remember to include farmers into those discussions. You know, we were one of the original prioritized in the legislation and we are receiving no assistance. We are receiving no help. We are being blocked by our communities from entering into the industry. And you know, I'm watching my friends farms all get rented out to solar where something as small as a 20,000 square foot canopy of cannabis could give them twice the money they make off a solar and keep that farms in their farm and keep that money there without ruining prime farmland. Um, so thank you guys for hearing us today. I hope you guys really take all the considerations from the community. And yeah, thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you very much. Mr grade any questions from 100 from members of the committee?
Yeah.
Alright. Hearing none. Um The next person we have up to testify is Christopher february.
Yeah. Yeah.
And then I just I see that represents Iago has also just joined us. Um Representative, go give us another second here. If mr february does not evidence himself. If you're ready then I'll call you next.
Alright represents Iago. I think you're up.
Great. And can you hear me?
Good afternoon everyone. Um First I want to3891 thank chairs, change gears and down to you for uh hosting this hearing. I'm3896 here to testify in support3897 of H 178 an act to ensure the equitable empowerment of minority owned businesses within communities that have been disproportionately impacted by the failed war on drugs. This bill essentially does establish a cannabis community and power mid fund within the massachusetts development finance agency, which will allow for low or no interest loans to minority owned businesses, particularly those communities that have suffered the bear the brunt from the failed war on drugs in 2016. As we all know, the voters of the commonwealth past question for which legalized recreational marijuana? The legislature, including many of the folks on this panel and folks in this virtual hearing, were very proactive in creating structures like the cannabis control commission to oversee the implementation of legalized marijuana and maintain regulatory authority over establishments.
However, as the marijuana industry has grown across the commonwealth, those benefits have not always3950 flowed to our historically marginalized impacted3952 communities. And the data reflects the reality that is extremely concerning to me. And I know too many of you on this phone call today. Um, I think there was a recent survey that I just read that about 1% of all marijuana dispensaries in the us are owned by black people. When that question is expanded to include All minorities. That never creeps up to 19%. I think that is unacceptable. And it really undermines the goals of really trying to advance economic and racial equity. In the last few years, we have approached this issue of legalized marijuana with a clear mission to implement the will of the voters while also protecting public health and public safety.
But as we continue to adjust uh, adjust this new3990 reality of readily available legal marijuana, we cannot forget to also look back at the thousands of individuals arrested and incarcerated for non violent marijuana related offenses. Many4000 people that I know personally in4002 my communities and and family members, racial disparities in communities throughout the commonwealth. Um, you know,4008 that need to be addressed so in that spirit, a number of constituents, um, you know, I had met with me and have talked to me about proposing a piece of legislation that would really acknowledge that history while building towards a more equitable future.
So the fund that proposed this bill will allow new businesses to access low or no interest loans that will provide start up costs. You know, the eligible businesses will be owned and operated by individuals from the very communities that face the harshest repercussions from the war on drugs.4034 Um the truth is, you know, we can never truly undo the damage and the hurt that destructive policy has done uh to to many residents, we have an opportunity now to lift up those folks and build a brighter future and by4045 empowering them. So this fund would be available to social equity and economic empowerment applicants, the mass minority business enterprises and businesses that are engaging with in areas of disproportionate impact as defined by the um C. C. C. The bill creates4059 an annual $10 million Cannabis Community Empowerment Fund from the Marijuana Regulation Fund.
I really the goal is to promote a forward looking approach to cannabis that acknowledges the harm perpetrated against these communities of color throughout the punitive drug policies of the past. Uh And upon beginning businesses, these4076 cannabis establishments and medical marijuana centers would be given the option to also make contributions to this fund. And these contributions would satisfy requirement that they Have a positive impact plan that there are over 1% of the businesses annual are anticipated annual gross sales. Therefore, I think for the time and look forward to hopefully community to get this bill a favorable uh Thank you, chair SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
the chair, Donahue, thanks Representative. Any questions from members of the4103 committee for represent Iago.
Alright, hearing them. Thank you. Again.4109 Representative.
All right. I gotta get back to my list here. I got a slow internet connection. So, bear with me folks.
Mhm.
All right. I think we were at Catherine Desmond.
Desmond. Are you with us? Okay. Mhm.
Mhm.
Yeah.
All right. I don't think this Desmond. So we're gonna go to anna made, mm.
Mhm,
mm hmm.
Mhm.
Yeah. All right. It looks like the next person we have signed up. We don't have a last name, but the first name is Kissy.
Is that a person with us in the hearing today?
Mhm.
All right. It looks like we're gonna keep going.
Yeah.
All right. Uh challenge smith.
I'm pretty sure that I saw. Good morning today. There we go.
Hello. My name is Helen smith. And I'm part I'm a participant in the Social Equity program court too. I'm here just to4248 give a voice to some of the women in the program right now. We are at the end of the program. We don't have any source of funding. Ah Although they say we should not work all these predatory lenders, that's all we have to work with. I do support support H 150 be used to have how to start our businesses. Write a testimony into you guys. Because I feel like there are a lot of things we should be covering for Social equity, women in the industry, in any industry. We're always on the back seat. We don't get paid accordingly and4293 were not represented it and it shouldn't be that way Right now, 60% of the job glass from Covid is women. And that portion maybe 5% of our another race and 8.5% are black women. Mhm. It's really unfair. We're4318 hoping that you guys hear us here in boston because there are a lot of other states that are supporting the women in the equity programs. We deserve that. Right? Thank you very much for your time. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you Miss Smith. I'm sorry, both for your work out in a in the industry and bring your perspective here today. Um Any questions from members of the committee for Miss Smith? Mhm.
All right. We're gonna keep going then to4355 the next person signed up, which is autumn estrada.
Mhm.
I think I say this is try to in the present list. Um So I'm going to keep us going to Stephen Barbosa.
Yeah, sure.
Yeah. Dr Christina. Maybe shields.
Hello. Thank you so much for taking the time. Um So I'm maybe I have my PhD in endocannabinoid system pharmacology. I'm currently involved in research in the industry and I'm also a medical cannabis patients. I'm in support specifically of H158 as 63 and as 73, but it's also my personal opinion that we're not doing enough as a state in general for social equity. The fact that this meeting is on on a weekday in the middle of working hours is just like an example of how little we consider social equity in any of our processes. You know, this this meeting is not during a time where a majority of people have the ability or access to to share their opportunities or or opinions.
Um and I'm I'm privileged to be able to speak to you today at this time. Um So that being said, capital initiatives are necessary to circumvent the barriers of entry in this industry. Um and that includes access to higher quality education and technical assistance and community trainings. But as4462 previously people mentioned, that has to be funded, there has to be money that goes into these programs. Um Also, expungement4470 of possession is essential because currently we can carry up to 28 g of flour legally here. So THC is the active component, or the active molecule that is in the plant, and the THC content in cannabis flower has more than tripled in the last 30 years, on average. Um So this means that for people who were arrested and charged in the nineties, a legal equivalent of THC would be up4498 to three ounces, or over 90 uh you know, 90 g, about 90 g of cannabis.
Um that would have about the equivalent level of THC content and it um to what is legally available now, and THC is the active component in the plant. Um So, you know, every day that goes by without any action only furthers the growing disparity in our industry and you know, time is of the essence and I really4524 appreciate the ability to speak on this and that everyone here is working towards these initiatives, but I can't stress enough that every moment that goes by without this action only creates a greater opportunity or and actually additional barriers to people who are starting out because as everyone probably knows the earlier the better um in in any emerging industry. So, thank you for your time and your attention. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you very much. Doctor Shields. Any questions from the committee for Dr Shields?
Thank you again. Um Ed D. Souza is the next person signed up on our list.
Alright. Not seeing him in a quick scan on the list. I'm gonna keep us moving. Um we have another just first name er uh signed up next Hassan.
I also don't see Hassan in our today's list. I'm gonna keep going to Beth waterfall.
Hi, this is Beth waterfall. Can you hear me okay? Go ahead. Thank you.
Thank you. Um I'm the executive director and one of the founders of Elevate Northeast, which is a five oh one C three nonprofit that we created a couple other entrepreneurs and educators in the space here in massachusetts. We created a couple years ago really to help fill the need that we felt was4616 there to break stigma through education at community outreach. And despite our best intentions without it being mandated that these businesses need to do the type of work that we're trying to fulfil with through our work, it's hard for even our nonprofit group to get any sort of funding from these organizations to reach out to the communities where they want to operate their businesses and to educate the folks that they want buying their products. April said it perfectly earlier that there have been folks that created this table that these larger entities are now coming in to sit at. And I just want to put my all my support forward for an equity fund um, in anything that, that the state can do to actually set aside money from the businesses that are profiting in this space to essentially write it into the law that these people that the law was written to help benefit are actually going to get some financial benefit out of this as well.
So all, all of my support as an individual citizen here in massachusetts for this equity grant program, I cannot support it enough. I cannot tell you how big that need is, not as somebody who is at all involved with licenses, but if somebody who's tried tirelessly to try to help these, these groups and create educational opportunities4691 that will break stigma and just make this industry, um, you know, more welcoming. Um, so again, I can't support this equity fund enough. Um, thank you to all the other activists who are here, you know, just putting putting their whole lives livelihoods on the line to start these businesses. And it's just a shame to see the larger players coming in and to be able to just essentially,4713 you know, take off and, and, um, make as much money as they want. While the folks who you really are at the spirit of legalization here in massachusetts are left waiting and losing all their4724 money. So thank4725 you again for your time, um, into all the advocates work here to develop the social equity fund. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you very much. Um, any questions from the committee from this waterfall?
All right. See none. Um, I note, um, that Kissy has joined us. Uh, it looks like back on the attendees list. Um, because he did, you still want to testify?
Hello? Hello?
Yes. Sorry. I was having technical difficulties.
Okay. Um, my name is Casey Key. I'm a social college. I'm participant in the southern cohort. Um, I lived in Boston for about 20 years now. I migrated here from Chicago, trying to get a better life for me and my son. Um, we struggled a lot with the war on drugs, um, different from over housing police from the, the dishonor of your family to all types of things. So I support giving equity back4794 to the people that is needed4796 in black and brown communities. Um, I supported only if it's going to go to the people that is needed sometimes that our voices are not heard when I mean our voice. I mean the people who are suffering, the people4808 who are low income, the people are in public housing, those are the people that would like to see the come up because those are people who are suffering more than anyone, not. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Um Roll call in the House.
Thanks freshman. Sorry about that because there's a formal session going on in the House of Representatives.4826 So we're just getting sort of updates every now and then when members need to4829 toggle over there to vote real quick, but you can keep going. It's okay.
So I would like to see it go to the community that is needed is very supportive. When I first got into the program, I was so excited because I've been in cannabis rural and suffered from a lot and it helps me cannabis not just for recreation, it's also for my anxiety and it also helped me with a lot of other things, not just to get high as the stigma that has been on it. So when4853 I got into the social quality program I thought it was the world, I thought it was very good and I was going to be able to a lot of things as far as you know, helping back, giving back to the community, our kids, the violence that is going crazy, that's in boston and things that stuff that I can get back to only to come to find out that there is no financial help.
Yes. They help you with business plans in the program is great but no financial help at all. No one not even help with your4875 H. A. C. Enough anything. So even though they've given us a great program and they're cutting down the fees for us. We still came for the fees. I'm in the program. I've been a program for a year struggling to find real estate and everything else. I think this is the funding for the Realist. Um I'm sorry the funding for us for the social equality will help everyone to get to the next level and even the playing field of the wealth gap that is that we have experienced for hundreds and hundreds of years. That is it to my testimony that I have to say today. Thank you so much. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Any members of the committee have questions for Casey.
I seen them. Thank you again for your testimony. Yeah. Um I'm going to go back to where we were previously in the list. We have another first name only. Uh person signed up. Marcus.
All right. Not hearing Marcus. I'm gonna keep us going to Talia McCray.
Mhm. Jordan clark, Jordan4958 clark Are you with us?
All right. We'll keep it moving. Um nick do4973 you have a neck? I was wishing to testify today.
Yes. Platforms
steve Lavin hunger was on here, but I know we already received her testimony so I'm gonna I'll skip to a Dominique Gardner.
I know I saw her earlier in the attendees list.
4999 Hello,4999 come on. A signer. How are you today? All right. Um Yes,5006 I'm sorry. I'm like for the first time I took some notes.
Um So I am here. I'm not gonna she her hers represent with village piff. Um I'm a uh what worries? Um I'm a farmer and basically I am not in support of any of these, those um we support5032 a fund. Um, but we can't just have any fun go through. Um We need to make sure that it's available accessible and targeted. Um to ensure that there is real equity and inclusion for those most impacted by the warrant drugs directly and indirectly. Um or the failed war on drugs directly and indirectly. This is a thing that's continuously happening. I know people like to talk about it like it's the past and like you know um like cannabis is decriminalized and it's not here in massachusetts um even though it's legalized. Um So people are making money off of it. Our community is still harmed.5067 Like we said there has been $0 that's been given to the community um directly impacted5072 by the war on drugs or the actual individuals um impacted. So um we need to ensure that um Just thinking about some of the bills like Bill H. I think it was.
No I don't even know Though H. 158 I think it was. I'm not really sure but one of the bills it was basically pushing towards municipalities. Um I want to say one thing. Um We need a we need to ensure that like the supports that S. Does M. S. O. S. And municipalities aren't able to apply for the Social Equity fund. Um We as like the black community, you know as farmers as you know people in the indigenous community and poor people have been blocked out, blocked out specifically black people blocked out of this industry and mso is preying on us and it's hard and municipalities even blocking out business owners and picking and choosing who who's qualifies. Um And with that that doesn't show equity. So allowing for there to be an equity fund for the fact that we created Economic empowerment and Social equity. And the data hasn't shown that those people, those programs are targeting the black community that has been targeted by the warring drug, the latino community that is supporting farmers, this this um socially disadvantaged farmers. These programs, no data showing those things.
So to say that we want to create a fund to support BEs and SCS isn't enough because we need to make sure that it's gonna be targeting socially disadvantaged farmers. It's gonna be targeting black individuals and people that have been directly locked up for this and you know, that been affected by this. Um I want to stay. Um Yeah, so a lot of municipalities are blocking out um people out of this community, out of this industry. But yeah, creating social equity programs um and looking for funding to support these programs. Same thing with these M. S. O. S. That are partnering with these people and creating social equity programs. It's not enough. Um The data shown us it's not enough. Um So yes we need more targeted. There was things saying about ES and S along with the state um mandate, what was it the could be a um D. B. A. Business.
Um But that's still not enough. We need to make sure that there is a criteria. Black Latina's indigenous, socially disadvantaged farmers are part of it. Um There's a big folk, we need a big focus on restorative justice and transformative justice. I don't want to keep hearing this words. Equity with no plan for actual equity. Um We need um I would say I do support like I like that they're saying 2025% of the excess tax revenue um going to um going to to support to the fund. But um They are minimum, I would say it would be 15% because of one of the bills, suggested that 15% of the fund should be used for administrative costs. And if that's the case on an equity standpoint, the bare minimum, that should be going to the fund would be 15, I would say from the excess sex II because if some people are saying like 1% 5% way too small, 10% too small. If you could say 15, then we can say 20 or the band minimum 15. Um I also want to put5275 in the fact that when that also social equity um, vendors shouldn't be able to apply for this money as well.
A lot of entrepreneurs created, well, a lot of social equity vendors act like they're not entrepreneurs at least cannabis space where they have canvas businesses and their funding their own support, so they're trying to fund their community impact and that's not okay as business entrepreneur
Miss Garner, sorry to interrupt you because you're at time. Um but I do actually have a couple questions I wanted to ask you and follow up to your testimony um to have a second for a couple questions. Yes please.
And I also really wanted to say one thing. The fact of the matter is farmers were mandated like5314 we were written into this um into the law and you know, I've still been waiting for a report saying how farmers, marijuana farmers, farmers would be um able to be in this industry and be able to access state land. Now there's a lot that was just passed by hemp, but there's no talk about, you know, equity for socially disadvantaged farmers for black farmers and small farmers. And where is this report with how we're gonna get into this industry? My mom is ee5341 one of the first person to, you know, apply for this and be and as a farmer to be in this. But yeah, there's no pathway and we're still looking for that, but yes, I'm here.
Um So you mentioned um that uh5356 you support the concept of a fund, um but that you I'm5361 just obstruct that. You mentioned that you also don't support any of the bills that are before us today. It sounds like many of the bills are components that you do support. Is there, you know, are there one or two specific things in the bills that caused you to say, even though I like this, these other pieces, uh you know, this one is a deal breaker for me.
Yes, most definitely. Um And I would type them and I will send them in and post them online too and I'll send them into, But most definitely I just didn't want to get things mixed up5389 because right now I'm at the firm. I don't want to get bills mixed up speaking. But there was one bill specifically where it's saying that, you know, it's okay to for them to donate and give that money to social equity vendors. Um, and that's not okay that we need to make sure that5402 does not happen. No. Social equity vendors should be able to get these money. Um, and also there was another one saying that municipalities should be able to get this money and they rarely, we really have to make sure there's been a lot of corrupt business and we could talk on another time about that. But with many municipalities, um, and we need to make sure that they are not able to apply for this um, money and get access to the money. We need to make sure that um, MSOs are not able to apply for this money and get access for this money for the person that they're choosing a partner with and support. Um, that may be a black person to support their social equity pilot or program or to um, train their employees that's not appropriate as well. We really need to support for, you know, local individuals, black individuals, people have been locked up for the plant and farmers. Um, and just5455 literally the data is not shown it and we all data isn't even specific.
I'm sorry5459 to cut you off again. But5460 I just, you know, I want to be fair to the folks that are behind you in the speaking order so that we saw that. But if you, if5466 you are able to, um, you know, it doesn't have to be today, but you know, in the next week or two able to send to the committee, uh, just, you know, any written, you know, specifics that you have about. As you looked at the bills, you know, this piece of this bill. I don't prefer this one. I do like. That's really helpful. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Okay, Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Mm. All right. Let's see. Let me get back to my list here. Um, next up we had uh, is it Goldie Pifer? Golden Piff.
Goldie. Thanks
everyone for everyone. Right. So one set. All right.
Um, thank you for allowing us the time5508 to speak up. And just to clarify that it isn't that we didn't support any of the equity bills. We do, but not in its entirety. So when it comes across in the written testimony, um, she kind of clears that up again. We're at the5525 farm and it's the middle of the day, it's hard for a lot of people just switched years into the business mind again. Um, but I just wanted to speak on expungement. I think there is a definite need for it. Um, my only concern is sometimes we hear folks saying it's an automatic expungement and I don't think that's what it is. So I just want to make sure that we're calling it what it is when we're saying, um, expungement and understanding all the barriers when it comes to the expungement, we need to find a way to5561 make this easier for people.
Um, you know, it's, there's just so much to this, but that expungement needs to be first and foremost, start up there and of course we do need funding lots of funding. And when we were saying about the municipalities, I hope that we don't leave it to them to delegate where the money goes into whom we need a better system, a better system put together to be able to vet and everything else. And I'm sorry guys, my brain is kind of5596 um lapsing right now but we will follow up in writing. No problem. Thank you. Mr if we appreciate you taking time out of the farming day um to be with us in this hearing any questions from members of the committee for either of or less? A couple test fires? SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
No. Okay. Um next up, thank you again ladies. Um next up is Matthew Greg.
Can you hear me? We can go ahead going down city members, House members and committee. That committee members.
My name is Matthew Greg. I'm a partner. Remember of village pills And cloudy today. Distribution. My testimony is going to be about what I agree with and what I disagree with individual. Okay, so bill. s. is about the5644 expungement and my partner Goldie Actually touched on this that it should state that if you have a drug conviction, you are eligible to have your record seal with the training program that is designed to help you get a job and get into the industry only makes sense. Right? So bill S 63 and H 177 um in order to determine this ballpark figure5668 of the set amount, it would be important to get local uh, information from keep participants to make the cost and fees accurate, making an accurate reflection of the market as it stands for black ownership. Okay, this allows that understanding and harmony touched on this also. This allows the understanding behind these expenditures, the market conditions and the program costs and fees. That's where that data actually comes in and it's useful.
So H 166 This allows to cut down for the C. C. C. Where these funds should be allocated by those who participate in the training and best practices crash course so that businesses are set up for success. The goal is to create successful businesses. So it's important to define what is success and so businesses owners know exactly what they're working towards. Makes sense. So H 158. The objective is to help businesses from my understanding. Okay. H158 says is going to help businesses that are financially struggling but you're going to charge them based on their success. I don't believe that's fair at all. Okay. So what we need to know, what are these important factors that are going to determine whether your loan is going to be forgiven? You have yet to see that. So, um, and also will the report to be made and released to the public? Any reports will be made released to the public so that ends my testimony. Help you are able to make the necessary changes to the bill. So thank you all for your time and enjoy your afternoon. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you Mr Greg. Any questions from members of the committee for Mr Greg?
Okay. Um let's see who we've got next on our list is uh Raymond Brown
not saying Mr Brown will go to gracie burger.
Can you all hear me? Can you hear you? Yeah,
thank you, Madam. And Mr chairpersons and members of the committee for providing the opportunity to give testimony today5808 regarding um Senate Bill 73. I'm a resident of Somerville and I'm testifying today on behalf of my organization, the Last prisoner project, a cannabis justice reform nonprofit, where I serve as the state policy director. I was a founding member of the National Clean Slate Initiative, where I helped facilitate campaigns in states around the country to pass legalism legislation creating automated record clearance processes. Um and it's with that background and I wish to5835 respectfully urge suggestions to the expungement legislation before the committee today, like the last couple of speakers um noted, I think we're hearing what I believe to be some misunderstanding around us, 73s um contemplated changes which appear to be not substantive at all. Rather, the legislation before the committee today appears to be a modest technical cleanup of the cannabis expungement statute that already exists in massachusetts, um emphasis on exists but does not work.
Um I'd like to offer that this statute requires more than a clean up and as a few before me today have mentioned, requires the addition of automation. To be clear. This element is not in the current proposal or similar proposals before5877 other committees in the Legislature is not just a post legalization state, but a leader in the cannabis industry. It is fundamentally unjust that massachusetts continues to support a system of of legalization for only certain communities. Public policy is meant to work for everyone without a meaningful change5897 to the expungement statute. On the books are state will continue to fail the very communities who bear the brunt of the war on drugs to this day.
To begin to right the wrongs of prohibition and make legalization accessible to all residents. The onus must be on the government to remove these erroneous convictions from people's records so that they may begin5916 to rebuild their lives. Perhaps the legislature believed that with the passage of S- 2371 in 2018, the job here is done. I am here to assure you that it is not. There persists a fundamental injustice that massachusetts has legalized and in fact benefits greatly from the cannabis industry. Yet5934 those with cannabis conviction history still suffer from the social and economic burden of those records due to a broken statutory process. As drafted, the proposed changes under S- 73 would not meaningfully5947 improve this failed public policy.
The current statutes petition-based system unfairly puts the burden of removing the stigma of a record on the individual who bears, not on the government, which created both the record and the stigma, and has since admitted that that was bad policy for offenses that are no longer such5964 under the criminal code record clearance should be immediately and freely accessible immediately because cannabis is legal in massachusetts and harm5972 is further to every additional day, someone is forced to serve the5975 lifelong sentence of having a criminal record freely accessible because not just common sense, but also the research shows that the plethora of financial, legal and cultural barriers to navigating the petition based process prevents those who most need record clearance from actually getting it. Both of these critical components necessitate automation, wherein the onus is on the government not a petitioner to move for clearance. Further, the shielding of cannabis convictions should involve no discretionary involvement from stakeholders such as judges and district attorneys. Because these convictions may no longer be handed down to current law. I'll submit the rest of my testimony I'm in writing and I thank the committee for your consideration. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Thank you Miss Berger. Any questions from members of the committee?
Alright, seeing none. Um Thank you again Miss Berger. And I do see I believe um The Miss King is here. So we'll go next to Hillary King Brooklyn. Okay,
thank you. Hi everyone. Uh My name is Hillary King Bucklin. I'm a longtime medical cannabis patient, an advocate and professional in the cannabis industry. And for the first time, I'm also here today as a representative of the company6054 that I work for. Um I'm the director of wholesale sales at Northeast alternatives were a medical and adult use dispensary in Fall River. Um so my entire job, everything our company does is comprised of the same kind of activity. You know that while now legal cannabis was used as justification to brutalize and oppress communities of colorado grossly disproportionate rate for decades. And marijuana laws have been enforced with such a staggering racial bias. Uh and the illegality of marijuana has played a central role in enabling and facilitating many of the societal inequalities were struggling with in general.
Um Those effects have rippled across generations. The disparities and rates of arrest and incarceration also leads to disparities and access to housing and education and health care and employment. Um it's, you know, it can all be traced back to a certain extent to this gross injustice, which is cannabis prohibition. Um and so as participants in the industry, it's our duty, it's our responsibility to never forget that, to never stop fighting for equity and for restorative justice. So We support as 73, I agree with the previous speaker that this needs work. The expungement should be automatic, and I would actually like to see expungement of all marijuana charges, not just possession as written in S- 73. Uh We also support the creation of the Social Equity Fund S 63 H 158 in in my opinion,6158 are the most well rounded of the proposals and includes something very important, which is grants that don't have to be paid back and loan forgiveness.
Um as written, they would also require the matching of funds one for one with contributions from private sources. I agree with MS6177 van James, that and other speakers that that matching shouldn't be required. But either way, I'm here to tell you today that Northeast alternatives is committed to contributing to the fund. Should this legislation pass? Uh, those who have been directly affected by the war on drugs deserve access to not just employment opportunities in the industry, but licensing and ownership as well as the support and resources necessary um to succeed without predatory terms or stacking the deck against somebody further with debt. Um cannabis should never have been illegal. This is one of the greatest injustices of our time and, and the industry, this industry is where we can help make that, right? So, um, I'll leave it at that and thank you for your time. Thank you as well. Any questions from members of the committee? SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
All right. CNN. Thank you again, Miss King. Um, King Buckland. Um, Next up. Uh, it looks like we've got ah Mr Raymond Brown. I think I just saw him pop back up. So, I think it's here now. It's around you with us.
I wonder if he's doing battle with a bad connection. All right. We'll check back in for Mr Brown. Um, again later. Robin Reid are you with us?
Uh gum or?
Hello? Hello. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm.
Good morning. My name is joe Gilmore. I'm a lifelong resident boston and speaking in my personal personal capacity and experience working with A. D. I. Municipalities and social equity applicants in massachusetts. I'll start with the components I believe are necessary to ensure a sustainable funding mechanism for massachusetts, cannabis equity startup businesses. Number one zero, not low, but zero interest loans and grants. I've been seeing the ore and we should just settle on zero. Um, number two is generates a realistic, adequate pool of capital cannabis businesses. Start up costs generally range between 1.5 and $5 million. Uh, so the fund should start with the intention of dispersing up to $250,000 per awardee. Number three, the loan repayments should kick in after demonstrating profitability to incentivize fund sustainability. And number four loan forgiveness is a component I believe should stay. Um, it's important to recognize the experiences gained from similar cannabis equity loan programs that have already been implemented across the country. In California, the city of Oakland has committed providing up to $150,000 in loans.
However many applicants experience6350 loan defaulting after being required to pay initial payments. So the takeaway from that is social equity applicants generally have a significantly lower income threshold. Therefore they will need significant time to become profitable for paying for6364 repaying equity loans. My recommendation is, after three years of successful business operations repayments would begin and those6372 repayments would be recirculated back into the fund, and this would allow more participants to receive higher amounts of funding over time while ensuring sc applicants have adequate time to pay back their loans. For these reasons, I'd like to speak in favour of H178 to form the Cannabis Community Empowerment Fund, with the allowance of immediate appropriation of $10 million, I think that should be uh annual and annual appropriation of $10 million Cannabis Regulation Fund to get an equity loan program up and running as soon as possible. And I just like to say to significant portions of this bill, H 1 78 1 is it allows 1.1% annual revenue6408 donations to satisfy the positive impact plan requirement, which really kills two birds with one stone because most of the positive impact plans that I've seen have offered little to no transformative outcomes and adequate funding for sc will drastically increase their opportunity for success.
And the second part is after community impact, the expires, the 1% annual revenue donation from all mtcr required. I believe this is necessary because medical dispensaries had a leg up as the first mover's advantage as they currently dominate the retail cannabis market. And with question for originally being rooted as a social justice and racial justice issue, MTC should pay it forward to the black brown and all those have been systematically disenfranchised and allowed an MTC is to participate in the legal cannabis industry in the first place. If equity is truly the overarching goal of the recreational cannabis industry, it should be reflected in the collective efforts of the recreational market place. I believe these provisions are imperative to ensure a large enough pool to to allow a sustainable disbursement of funds that will provide ample opportunities for success for all future social equity applicants.
And lastly, I just like to move the to re designate the Committee of on Housing and Economic Development to oversee the fund rather than the massachusetts Development Finance Agency. Um aside from that, I just like to voice my support for automatic expungement. I didn't um, necessarily read the bill, but I know just in general um in terms of automatic expungement, what they mean is just getting rid of the filing process because uh the filing process is really what's holding everybody up. Like people are already eligible for expungement, but they're just not going about the process of filing with the state and we have the technology to make it uh automatic. So I think that if that can be done that we should do that and thank you all for your time and welcome anybody's questions.
Thanks Mr Gilmore. Um I do actually have a question. Um you mentioned at the end of your testimony there that you would rather have the fund be administered by. Um I think housing economic development rather than mass development. I'm curious about why
I do not have that information. Um right now I can get back to you on that. But just from6543 my experience, um, when I have heard municipalities talking about disbursement of funds, uh, it's hugely through the economic, um, the economic development portion of the city is, but I've normally come across and this financial of the other mentioned group, I'm just not familiar with them, so just going with what I've heard.
Okay, if you if you do have any other follow up later, are it's helpful to have that context, So feel free to and encouraged to send it to us anytime any questions from other members of6579 the committee? SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
From Mr Gilmore?
Okay, thank you again, Mr Gilmore. Alright, we're in the homestretch here. Uh, Mr harry everything, jean Jacques.
Hello, it's, yeah, go ahead.
Hello, we can hear you.
Okay, thank you. Um, thank you for your time. Everybody. I appreciate you all being here. Um, I've heard a lot of talk about equity, but clearly, uh, we haven't achieved that. A lot of people put a lot of hard work into question for, uh, question for a long time ago, both voting for it and, you know, advocating for it. Uh, I think a good way to achieve equity would6628 be having a fund, but which would larger, larger allocation. You need 1.5-5 million from what I've been told to actually get into the weed game today due to the artificially high threshold that that we created. Unfortunately. Um, I think that would do a lot to help people of black and brown from the black and brown community to actually get it become a part of the, you know, making money and, and achieving, you know, the racial wealth gap. Yeah, I think clearly we need to make expungement, the expungement pull bigger and automatic. That would go a long way to help millennial people that were racially targeted by the commonwealth. And um you know, if we if we could do that, then we have a great foundation to, you know, help the only people in the community I feel. But thank you for your son. Thank you. SHOW NON-ESSENTIAL DIALOGUE
Miss starving. Any questions from the committee and starving.
All right, I'm just gonna do a last check if there are folks that we previously called to testify, who had signed up, um but weren't able to connect uh previously, but who are who are here and still waiting to testify. Um just go ahead and you can just say your name will know that you're here and waiting to testify.
Okay. Hearing none. Um that concludes our testimony today. Thank you everybody again for tuning in. Thanks for your patience with our technical delays. And keep an eye on the committee docket for next year. Thanks everybody. This hearing is adjourned. Thank you. Okay.
Mhm,
mm.
Mhm.
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