2/25/25, 11:00 AM - Full Formal Session: House Session, House Chamber
Status: | Normal |
Date/Time: | 2/25/25 11:00 AM |
Location: | House Chamber |
Committee: | House Session (HS) |

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2591.63 REP2591.63 MURADIAN2591.63 -2591.63 AMENDMENT2591.63 42591.63 -2591.63 Thank2591.63 you,2591.79 Madam2592.43 Speaker,2592.75 and2592.75 through2592.91 you2593.15 to2593.31 the2593.39 members.2593.55 I2594.75 wanna2595.07 first2595.47 say2595.71 that2595.87 I2596.11 appreciate2596.27 the2596.83 proposed2596.99 rules2597.47 package2597.79 making2598.67 moves2598.99 towards2599.39 a2599.71 more2599.87 transparent2600.27 and2601.23 deliberate2601.39 legislative2602.03 body.2602.67 And2603.36 in2603.59 that2603.76 spirit,2604.07 I2604.47 rise2604.64 today2604.88 in2605.28 support2605.51 of2605.91 amendment2606.07 4,2606.64 which2607.28 calls2607.51 for2607.84 a2607.99 copy2608.16 of2608.55 any2608.88 and2609.11 all2609.36 audits2609.76 of2610.16 the2610.32 General2610.88 Court2611.59 conducted2611.59 by2612.07 the2612.32 state2612.47 auditor2612.8 to2613.59 be2613.76 published2613.91 on2614.39 the2614.64 General2615.2 Court2615.51 website.2615.51 I2616.64 wanna2616.8 be2616.96 clear2617.2 that2617.6 this2617.84 does2618.08 not2618.24 address2618.4 a2618.88 when,2619.2 but2619.92 only2620.16 a2620.64 if2621.04 the2621.84 state2622 auditor2622.32 conducts2622.72 said2623.2 audit.2623.44 All2624.32 of2624.56 this2624.64 amendment2625.2 asked2625.76 for2625.92 is2626.32 a2626.56 much2626.64 more2626.96 transparent2627.36 process2628 of2628.48 the2628.64 audit2628.8 being2629.2 posted.2629.44 72%2630.69 of2632.14 our2632.38 residents,2632.61 our2633.26 families,2633.57 our2634.21 friends,2634.45 and2634.78 our2635.01 voters2635.17 want2635.97 more2636.3 accountability2636.53 and2637.41 they2637.66 deserve2637.82 more2638.21 accountability.2638.53 Madam2639.57 Speaker,2639.89 I2640.21 ask2640.3 when2640.45 a2640.61 vote2640.69 on2641.01 amendment2641.73 42641.82 is2641.82 taken,2641.82 it's2642.05 called2642.21 by2642.38 the2642.53 yeas2642.69 and2642.86 nays.2643.01 Thank2643.49 you.2643.73
2677.57 REP2677.57 DAY2677.57 -2677.57 AMENDMENT2677.57 42677.57 -2677.57 Thank2677.57 you,2677.81 Madam2678.61 Speaker,2678.77 and2678.77 through2678.77 you2678.77 to2678.77 the2678.93 members,2679.01 I2679.41 thank2679.57 the2679.89 gentleman,2680.21 my2680.61 friend2680.85 from2681.09 Grafton,2681.41 for2682.45 bringing2682.61 this2682.93 to2683.17 the2683.25 floor.2683.41 And2684.13 I2684.45 think2684.61 I2685.89 can2686.05 assuage2686.29 the2686.85 proponents2686.93 of2688.16 this2688.32 amendment2688.55 by2689.84 directing2689.99 them2690.32 to2690.55 review2690.71 our2691.51 website2691.76 that2692.32 they2692.39 seek2692.64 to2692.88 change.2692.95 On2694.55 our2694.71 website,2694.95 the2695.84 party2696.07 would2696.39 be2696.47 happy2696.55 to2696.8 know,2696.95 all2697.51 audits2697.84 are2698.55 already2698.71 posted2698.95 by2699.76 the2699.91 clerk.2700.07 Go2701.33 to2701.57 the2701.61 clerk,2701.65 House2702.29 clerk,2702.61 go2703.57 under2703.73 reports,2704.05 and2705.01 you'll2705.17 find2705.41 every2705.65 audit2705.89 that2706.69 the2706.85 auditor2707.09 submits2707.41 to2708.29 the2708.45 great2708.61 and2709.17 General2710.05 Court2710.05 already2710.05 posted2710.37 there.2710.69 So2712.05 that2712.37 should2712.61 resolve2713.01 the2713.73 question.2713.89 I2715.2 think,2715.43 though,2716.24 underlying2716.64 from2717.04 what2717.28 I2717.36 heard2717.52 from2717.76 my2717.91 friend2718.08 there,2718.32 there's2719.2 a2719.36 different2719.52 question2719.91 that2720.24 they2720.47 seek2720.8 to2721.04 debate,2721.2 which2721.52 kind2721.76 of2721.99 rubs2721.99 us2722.24 raw,2722.39 because2723.43 they2723.76 know2723.91 it's2724.24 premature2724.39 and2725.52 it's2725.76 begging2725.91 the2726.32 question2726.39 that2726.88 is2727.04 currently2727.2 being2727.52 contested2727.76 by2728.94 the2729.02 House2729.1 and2729.74 the2729.98 Senate2730.14 with2731.02 the2731.26 auditor2731.42 who2731.98 proposes2732.3 to2732.78 violate2732.94 the2733.74 separation2733.9 of2734.3 powers2734.46 entrenched2735.26 in2735.74 our2735.9 constitution.2736.38 That2738.46 is2738.78 a2739.9 matter,2740.06 as2740.38 I2740.62 said,2740.78 that2741.26 is2741.42 being2741.99 disputed.2742.23 That's2742.95 our2743.28 job2743.51 here2744.88 in2745.11 the2745.28 legislature2745.43 is2746.39 to2746.64 ensure2746.88 that2747.51 our2747.76 system2747.91 of2748.16 government2748.32 is2748.64 protected.2748.8 We2750.32 take2750.47 an2750.71 oath2750.88 every2751.51 two2751.91 years2752.16 to2753.2 swear2753.36 to2753.68 uphold2753.84 the2754.39 constitution.2754.55 And2755.83 while2756.07 our2756.23 friends2756.31 down2756.71 in2756.79 Washington2756.95 DC2757.43 may2758.39 not2758.55 feel2758.79 that2759.19 the2759.35 separation2759.51 of2759.91 powers2760.07 is2760.47 important,2760.63 we2761.43 do2761.67 here.2761.99
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• REP MORAN - House Member, HB 2026 sponsor
• REP JONES - House Member, HB 2026
• REP GARABEDIAN - House Member, HB 2026
• REP FIOLA - House Member
• REP MURADIAN - House Member
• REP DAY - House Member
• REP VIEIRA - House Member
• REP FLUKER-REID - House Member
• REP FROST - House Member
• REP SMOLA - House Member
• REP LANATRA - House Member
• REP BARBER - House Member
• REP GALVIN - House Member, HB 2024 sponsor
• REP GIANNINO - House Member
• REP LOMBARDO - House Member
• HB 2026 – House joint rules package for the current legislative session proposing permanent joint rules governing committee operations, bill processing times, and transparency measures.
• HB 2024 – House rules package for the 2025–2026 legislative session emphasizing modernized processes, assured in-person participation, and enhanced accountability through transparency and external audits.
Synopsis
The hearing opened with REP MORAN introducing HB 2026, a proposed package of joint rules intended to redefine the committee process for the current legislative session. Speaking from the floor, REP MORAN explained that the new rules had been shaped by extensive input from party colleagues, staff members, constituents, and various advocacy groups. He detailed the historical context wherein the members were elected and had separated into caucuses before coming together to elect the Speaker. According to his remarks, the traditional formation and assignment of rules were being modernized to better facilitate legislative business. Among several proposals was the transition to a system where committees in joint hearings would operate such that House bills are voted on solely by House members and Senate bills by Senate members. REP MORAN emphasized that these changes were designed to expedite the flow of legislation by instituting a mandatory 60‐day limit for a bill to be reported out of committee after its hearing. He underscored the importance of sharing administrative responsibilities between the two chambers, noting that committee operations—such as preparing bill summaries, organizing hearings, and documenting votes—would be made publicly available online to provide transparency regarding how legislation advanced in the chamber.
Following the introduction of HB 2026, REP JONES took the floor to introduce Amendment 2. In his remarks, REP JONES commended the work that had gone into the rules package and noted that no amendments had been filed by the majority party, suggesting that the minority contribution over the years had influenced the proposal. He focused in particular on a proposal to require that certain legislative matters—conference committee reports, gubernatorial vetoes, and reenactments arising from budget amendments conducted after July 31—be subject to a roll call recorded vote. According to REP JONES, this requirement would instill transparency, predictability, and accountability in the process by ensuring a clear record of votes on issues that traditionally could occur during the lame duck session.
Shortly afterward, REP GARABEDIAN rose in opposition to Amendment 2. While expressing his appreciation for the comprehensive rules package and acknowledging the collaborative effort behind it, he cautioned that mandating recorded vote procedures for every report coming from conference committees would hinder the legislative process. REP GARABEDIAN argued that the measure could restrict the body’s ability to respond quickly to issues of public concern such as maternal health, climate change, economic development, and long-term care by imposing a uniform standard that, in his view, did not fit all circumstances.
The debate then shifted back to the procedural details concerning late-session votes. REP JONES, addressing Amendment 3, supported a proposal to provide a two‐week notice to members prior to a formal legislative session convened after July 31. He argued that such notice would allow members to prepare adequately, especially when bills under consideration were often extensive and involved comprehensive changes. REP JONES’s argument centered on ensuring that every member, regardless of location or schedule constraints, had sufficient time to digest the contents of lengthy bills before being required to cast their votes. In contrast, REP FIOLA offered a dissenting perspective on Amendment 3. Emphasizing the nature of the legislature as a full-time body, REP FIOLA contended that a brief notice period was appropriate and that the need for nimbleness outweighed the demand for extended warning times. She maintained that the existing schedule allowed members to fulfill their responsibilities without undue delay even when faced with complex legislative proposals.
The discussion then moved to proposals addressing transparency measures involving audits of the General Court. REP MURADIAN introduced Amendment 4 in support of publishing every audit conducted by the state auditor on the General Court website. His argument was based on the premise that greater accountability was in line with the desire of the majority of constituents, as he noted that a significant portion of residents supported enhanced audit disclosure. REP MURADIAN clarified that the amendment did not specify a particular timeframe for posting the audits but would offer the public clarity on audit outcomes whenever such reviews were initiated. In response, REP DAY opposed Amendment 4, insisting that all audit reports were already available on the website through the House clerk’s section under reports. REP DAY suggested that the broader debate underlying the amendment was not solely about posting audits but touched on constitutional issues regarding the separation of powers. He expressed concerns that the auditor’s actions might overstep constitutional boundaries, an issue currently being hotly contested between the House, the Senate, and the auditor’s office itself.
The focus of the hearing then shifted to another accountability measure involving separation of powers. REP VIEIRA introduced Amendment 5, emphasizing that if there was any constitutional dispute arising from legislation with conflicting opinions between either branch of the General Court and a constitutional officer, the matter should be referred to the Supreme Judicial Court for an opinion. REP VIEIRA argued that this approach would uphold the principles enshrined in the separation of powers doctrine and ensure that important questions of law were adjudicated by the judiciary when necessary. However, REP FLUKER-REID soon offered a counterpoint by opposing Amendment 5. In his remarks, he maintained that the proposal was likely to create unnecessary delays by requiring additional judicial review on matters that already had established processes for legal challenges. REP FLUKER-REID contended that the existing legal frameworks provided sufficient means for addressing constitutional questions without encumbering the legislative process. REP FROST, while also discussing Amendment 5, echoed some of these concerns by suggesting that the electorate already had access to the mechanisms needed for obtaining judicial opinions on constitutional matters. The debate on Amendment 5 underscored the persistent tension between ensuring constitutional adherence and maintaining procedural efficiency in legislative operations.
Attention then returned to issues related to the voting procedures within committees. REP SMOLA introduced Amendment 6, which called for instituting a two-hour window during which members could cast votes on committee polls. His position was informed by practical challenges experienced by representatives who, particularly when away from the State House or caught in transit, faced extremely limited time to read and analyze bills that could run into hundreds of pages. REP SMOLA cited past examples as illustrating that polls had been open for as short as 12 or 30 minutes in some cases, a duration he deemed insufficient for an informed vote. According to his proposal, extending the response window to two hours would allow legislators the necessary time to review the substantive details of bills in order to formulate a considered opinion. Opposing this amendment, REP LANATRA argued that the nature of the legislative process required rapid responses and that emergency situations or rapidly evolving issues demanded that members be prepared to vote without significant delays. REP LANATRA suggested that lengthy windows could undermine the ability of the legislature to act promptly in times of urgency. The exchange on Amendment 6 highlighted a key debate over the balance between providing sufficient time for due diligence and preserving the swift operation of legislative procedures.
Following this, REP SMOLA revisited the discussion by introducing Amendment 7, which proposed that there be a 12-hour advance notice before a committee vote was conducted electronically. He reasoned that providing early notice would allow members to plan accordingly, particularly when confronted with a voluminous bill without prior indication of its pending vote. REP SMOLA argued that even if the actual voting window remained short, the additional notice period would improve preparedness by alerting members ahead of time. In contrast, REP BARBER expressed opposition to Amendment 7, contending that the requirement for a 12-hour notice would impede the legislature’s ability to conduct swift committee votes. REP BARBER maintained that as full-time members, legislators were expected to be prepared for votes on short notice and that extending the notice period would only serve to slow down the legislative process without yielding significant benefits in preparedness.
Later in the session, the debate shifted to another legislative reform contained in HB 2024, as introduced by REP GALVIN. Speaking on behalf of HB 2024, REP GALVIN acknowledged the work of Speaker Mariano and Leader Moran in crafting a rules package that not only included technical updates but also represented a commitment to modernize the legislative process. REP GALVIN underscored the value of in-person voting at hearings and sessions, viewing face-to-face engagement as essential to the functioning of the House. He highlighted several key features of the proposed rules, including the requirement for committees to post bill summaries online prior to floor votes, the mandated publication of detailed reports outlining changes made during committee review, and the engagement of an independent audit firm as well as an external equal employment opportunity officer. His remarks stressed that these reforms were intended to enhance transparency and accountability while ensuring that the legislative process remained accessible in real time to the public.
The discussion continued with focus turning to Amendment 18, which was raised by REP JONES. This amendment sought to adjust the deadline for submitting amendments on a bill. Under the current arrangement, amendments attached to a bill due by noon on Tuesday left little time for review of certain lengthy legislative proposals. REP JONES proposed a shift so that bills would be made available by noon on Monday with amendments due at 5 p.m. on Tuesday. His argument centered on providing more time for members to study complex, multi-hundred-page bills, gather input from various stakeholders, and subsequently craft considered amendments before the deadline. In response, REP GIANNINO expressed opposition to Amendment 18, arguing that extending the deadline would reduce the efficiency and flexibility of the legislative process. REP GIANNINO maintained that the existing timeline struck a reasonable balance between allowing adequate review and maintaining momentum, especially in times when rapid action was required to address emerging issues.
The latter part of the hearing focused on further debate regarding the audit process and the role of the state auditor in reviewing House operations. In particular, Amendment 17 garnered significant attention. REP FROST, bringing forward support for Amendment 17, noted that the amendment was intended to honor a previous vote by the constituents that granted the state auditor enhanced authority to audit the legislature. He recalled that in November, changes had been made to allow the auditor to select an independent auditing firm for reviewing the House’s financial accounts, a move seen as aligning with the will of the voters. REP DAY offered an opposing view, warning that the amendment’s language would grant the state auditor power to repeatedly audit and require written responses on an ongoing cycle, potentially hindering the legislature’s ability to conduct its work. REP DAY referenced the constitutional principle of separation of powers to argue that subjecting the legislative process to continuous audit review would blur the boundaries between branches of government.
Further contributions on Amendment 17 came from REP LOMBARDO, who cited the results of the statewide vote on Question 1, which saw a 72% majority in favor of permitting the state auditor to review the legislature’s records. REP LOMBARDO emphasized that the measure had widespread popular support across all communities in the Commonwealth and questioned why, given this clear mandate, the amendment should be opposed. He also criticized legal actions initiated by some members of the leadership, noting that the taxpayers’ wishes appeared to be at risk of being undermined by efforts to challenge the voters’ decision through costly legal proceedings. In contrast, REP DAY reiterated concerns about protecting the constitutional separation of powers. He argued that by allowing the auditor to review not just financial accounts but also the internal workings of the legislative process, the amendment risked creating a cycle of oversight that could eventually encumber the work of the House with repeated audits and responses. In his remarks, REP DAY made historical references to debates dating back to the 18th century regarding the proper limits of governmental power and cautioned that excessive oversight by an independent auditor could upset the balance between branches of government. The debate on Amendment 17 was marked by detailed discussions about constitutional mandates, historical precedents, and differing interpretations of what the voters’ will meant for modern legislative practice.
Throughout the session, the exchange among the speakers underscored several recurring themes. Many lawmakers stressed the importance of transparency and accountability in the legislative process, advocating measures that would not only expedite the processing of bills but also ensure that information regarding committees, amendments, and votes was clearly communicated to the public. At the same time, there was agreement that the process must remain streamlined enough to allow rapid response in emergency situations and to prevent undue delays that might arise from overly rigid procedural requirements.
Several speakers made specific references to their personal or institutional experiences on committees. They noted that lengthy bills, sometimes exceeding 200 pages, were frequently advanced through polls that were open for periods as short as 12 to 30 minutes. This scenario was presented as a practical challenge for members, particularly those traveling long distances to the State House who might not have the opportunity to study legislation thoroughly before being required to vote. Proposals such as the two-hour window for polling or the 12-hour notice before an electronically taken committee vote were discussed not only in abstract terms but with concrete examples about how these measures might affect day-to-day legislative operations. Some representatives argued that such measures would empower every member, regardless of party or district constraints, to engage more fully with the content of bills and present well-considered amendments. Others countered that these extended timelines would slow down an already busy schedule and that efficiency required members to remain ready to act at a moment’s notice.
The discussion also reflected broader questions about the role of historical principles in contemporary governance. For example, multiple speakers drew on references to the separation of powers doctrine championed in the 18th century. Historical figures were invoked as cautionary examples, with some speakers quoting early judicial critics of excessive executive power or conflated authorities. In this light, proposals that involved external judicial review of constitutional matters (as seen in Amendment 5) were debated not just on procedural grounds but also in terms of fundamental constitutional philosophy. The legislators were careful to articulate that any change in how oversight was conducted had to be measured against the traditional understanding of the division of governmental powers—a debate that continues to resonate in modern legislative policymaking.
In addition to the debate over committee procedures and audit processes, the hearing touched on the broader implications of modernizing legislative practices. REP GALVIN’s remarks on HB 2024 outlined a vision for a House that was more accessible to the public and more reflective of contemporary expectations for openness in government. His proposals included publishing detailed bill summaries online, requiring personal voting at sessions and hearings (with limited exceptions for health or military obligations), and instituting independent audits to add external accountability to the legislative process. His comments resonated with those who saw the modernization of House rules as a means to reestablish trust between elected officials and their constituents. The discussion framed these reforms as a continuation of previous rule changes, while also addressing new challenges that had emerged in recent legislative sessions. In doing so, legislators balanced the twin imperatives of enabling swift legislative action while ensuring that transparency did not fall by the wayside.
As the hearing progressed, amendments were debated one after the other, with each proposal met by a measured response from supporters and opponents. Proponents frequently emphasized the need to provide members with enough time to review complex legislation and make informed decisions. Opponents, on the other hand, warned that any extension of timelines or additional procedural steps might slow down the pace of legislative work at times when prompt executive action was needed. The debates were structured around the idea that rules must serve both to open the legislative process to public scrutiny and to ensure that the governmental machinery continues to function efficiently under sometimes pressing circumstances.
The final stages of the hearing concentrated on the contentious issue of the state auditor’s role in overseeing the legislative branch. With Amendment 17 generating extensive debate, lawmakers revisited historical documents and recent legal decisions to illustrate their points. References were made to past statewide initiatives, voter referenda, and contemporary legal challenges regarding the balance of power. In this context, REP LOMBARDO’s appeal to the results of the popular vote was set against arguments that pointed to potential constitutional violations and the risk of legislative paralysis. The discourse was methodical and contained detailed references to legal language and historical precedent, ensuring that the arguments for and against expanded audit authority were addressed comprehensively.
After hours of deliberation, the House recessed briefly before a final tally was provided on Amendment 17. The vote, as announced, indicated that the amendment was not adopted. In his summing-up, several speakers stressed that while the spirit of increased transparency was broadly shared, the means by which it was to be implemented required careful calibration in order not to disrupt the legislative process or infringe on the constitutional separation of powers.
Throughout the hearing, the exchanges among the members were detailed and specific. Every amendment offered a nuance to the overall changes proposed in the rules packages, and each speaker’s comments contributed to a broader discussion about how contemporary challenges, including emergency responsiveness, information overload, and constitutional accountability, should be addressed within the legislative framework. While there was common ground in the desire for enhanced public oversight and improved internal communication, differences remained clear regarding the appropriate balance between procedural formality and operational efficiency.
In closing, the hearing captured an extensive debate on the modernization of legislative rules, reflecting divergent viewpoints on transparency, efficiency, accountability, and constitutional boundaries. The proposals under HB 2026 and HB 2024 were presented as transformative measures aimed at eliminating legislative logjams and ensuring that the process of passing bills remained both open to public inspection and efficient enough to meet the challenges of a fast-moving political environment. The deliberations revealed a legislative body striving to reconcile the dual imperatives of upholding longstanding constitutional principles and embracing the modern demands of legislative governance. The detailed discussion of amendments—from the precise timing of committee votes and amendment deadlines to the scope of audit authority—served to illustrate the complexity of crafting rules that must serve an evolving constituency while remaining true to historical mandates that have guided governance for centuries.